[roddersm]

Hi,

We are staying in a Gite (not registered with Gites de France) and have paid in full for 3 weeks, however the Gite owner has now come back and said she has undercharged and now wants to charge 50% more than the quoted price. This is the second time she has done this in terms of increasing the price, first saying she wanted an extra 100euro to cover an energy hike.

Does anyone know if she can legally do this? We don't have a contract but have email correspondence confirming the original price and payment.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks.
 

[Snoops]

What a bitch.
I would of thought legally she can't, if you have an email confirming the price and that she has received the monies.
 
However realistically your not going to be going to court are u. i would refuse to pay and I would email the Fench National gite Association for advice - they are pretty friendly and generally reply quick. I would tell her your asking their advice as well - see what happens!

Hopefully Neil will turn up, if not PM him, he rents Gites out there so could probaly tell u exactly how it is.

[andyd]

Rubbish.
If you haven't paid yet, I'd leave and set up camp in a F1 until you can find a different place.
How many of you are there? I might know a place if you promise to keep it a secret.

[GCW]

We are staying in a Gite (not registered with Gites de France) and have paid in full for 3 weeks

I think this is the crux of the issues, andyd.

[roddersm]

Hi thanks guys,

Yeah the problem is we have paid the original price. I'd imagine if we leave we will lose this so probably this is not an option. The question is whether we can legally refuse to pay the extra 500euro. I strongly suspect she is taking the piss and may start looking for more.

If the Gite isn't registered with Gite de France I wonder is there any point emailing them. I'm guessing there is some sort of Landlord tenant agreement in France?

Not sure where the best place is to get legal advice out here? We have until Tuesday to pay the extra so I want to find out were we stand legally before then.

Thanks all.

[andyd]

We are staying in a Gite (not registered with Gites de France) and have paid in full for 3 weeks

I think this is the crux of the issues, andyd.

Hmmm...skim reading error. Thank you for pointing out all of the necessary words 

[psychomansam]

Without knowing anything, you should certainly take the approach of paying her nothing further and refusing to leave.

She's quite obviously ripping you off so you could try to get the law involved, but realistically the hassle won't be worth it. I'd be inclined to tell her to f*^& off and threaten to destroy the place if she doesn't bring you a 100 euro refund (for the previous hike), beer and an apology.

[andyd]

No
Definitely play nice.
At the moment you are definitely in a better place morally.

[Durbs]

Name and shame?

Seems very dodgy - perhaps she's double-booked the last week and the second booking is more lucrative so wants you out?

[Rocksteady]

At cursory glance and with the understanding that I'm just speculating on the internet and not offering you legal advice that you should rely on etc, to me it looks like in English contract law you'd have a contract - an offer by her to let out the Gite, an acceptance by you to stay there for the asking price, and consideration - you paying over the sums asked for. You don't need a written contract - you have email evidence that one's formed and acceptance by conduct and consideration paid over from your bank account.

Her asking for more money sounds like an attempt at a unilateral variation of the contract. Is she offering anything above and beyond what was originally offered on the Gite to justify the price hike? Otherwise I think you can refuse to pay the extra, or even leave and ask for your money back.
I googled and found this: http://articles.rollingsons.co.uk/2013/03/can-business-unilaterally-vary-contract.html

BUT - I don't know the French law. I'd consider going to the Citizens Advice Bureau if I was you as a starting point.
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

Sounds like a nightmare, hope you get this sorted out.

[tomtom]

I would tell her you don't have the money.

You paid the price advertised and simply do not have any more until the end of the month. After all, times are hard, non?

[Nibile]

Do not pay, do not leave.
Read carefully all the correspondence you have, and try to search for small details that could justify her behaviour and requests.
Emailing Gites de France could be a good idea, I don't know if one has to be registered with them to offer that service; if she's not, and she's not working regularly, probably this will sort things out.
If things go awry (she locks you out, she steals the keys, etc.) be smart and just call the Gendarmerie. They'll be on your side. Unlike if you destroy things...
If she's not registered, she asks for extra money and the likes, I'd guess (I'm Italian after all) she's trying not to pay taxes on those extra money... Do your math.

[petekitso]

 :coffee:With all the usual disclaimers I agree with the posts above other than the one abou smashing the place up. French law in this respect offers the same protection as UK common law ie you have agreed a price and she cannot now legally require additional monies (not even the first 100) unless there is a clear term allowing the price to fluctuate. Alongside checking any small print I would refuse to pay as politely as I could manage and if anything develops inform the local police, I would certainly not leave unless I was worried about my safety. Hope everything works out for you.

Tragically this is the first thread I have ever felt qualified to comment on - this sums up the disappointing direction my life has taken. . .

[roddersm]

Thanks everyone. OK we have no contract but have email confirmation of the price plus the fact that we have paid in full.

We spoke to both the Tourist Office in Font and the Gites de france. Both seemed to think this was unusual, that if we've agreed a price and paid that she can't change it, although both said they weren't sure on the legal ins and outs.
The tourist board have offered to contact the gite owner on our behalf but Gites de france can't do much as the gite isn't registered with them.
 
There has been no change to the service, she is claiming that her father is the gite owner and he wants 2k (i.e. double), that she got the price wrong, but she's knocked him down to 1.5k, so we owe another 500. 

We have neither disputed or agreed to pay but I want to get as much advice on French law before we speak with her as I wasn't sure if we had the same consumer/tenant rights here. I'm not sure that the fact that she is advertised as the gite owner and now she is claiming not to be supports us legally or not in terms of the original agreement.

It seems as though the consensus though is that she is acting illegally by changing the price and that we should politely refuse to pay anything beyond what was originally agreed?

Thanks everyone.       

[Nibile]

Who's your fuckin' daddy?
Utter bullshit.
Do not pay. Be polite.

[shurt]

Sorry to hear about the hassle, sounds a complete nightmare.

Even if you dont do this until you leave please let us know which gite this is. I go to font often and don't think ive stayed in the same place twice. I would be good to know somewhere to avoid.

I know nothing of the law but as others have said I think staying put and refusing to pay any more is a good plan. Hope it works out for you.

[roddersm]

Yeah for reference the place is http://www.cheznous.com/248837/chez-diana-seine-et-marne.aspx

..and its nowhere near as nice as it looks, easily the worst gite I've stayed in in 6 or so visits and most expensive (not including the hike!).... was recommended the place after the owner of the gite we usually stay in let us down last minute due to family coming or something.... if I could get a refund I'd be happy to move for sure.
 

[T_B]

Did you 'book' through that website? I realise they are just a referral website and the contract is with you and the gite owner, but Chez Nous are registered in the UK. I would at least write to them. If the gite owner gets a lot of her inquiries through Chez Nouse presumably she doesn't want to be kicked into touch by them?

[nai]

 

Yeah for reference the place is

..and its nowhere near as nice as it looks, easily the worst gite I've stayed in in 6 or so visits and most expensive

but I'd been wondering if it was worth having a thread for reviews of font gites. Just what's good and what's not, what's different from the description, what's missing that you might want to take.

E.g. the place we stayed at Easter:

What's good: idyllic location in a wood, loads of wildlife (e.g. Red Squirrel, Bullfinch, Woodpecker, Wagtail) and space for kids to play, Located on main road just ½ mile from Cuvier & easy access everywhere. Local patisserie does the best Almond Croissant in the forest.

what's not good: a bit tired & dirty, damp on walls in bedroom, electric heating only, no kettle, Items of broken furniture. Located long way from road down a rutted, pot-holed track. Bathroom & toilet accessed through main bedroom; cushions for pillows; DVD has no remote.  On our visit the place was also crawling with ants, especially in the kids bedroom which was rather unpleasant for them to say the least. Got hammered for Chauffage costs (£50 for the week).

variations from description: shower is an attachment on bath taps only, not overhead & no curtain. 

Recommended? wouldn't like to stay when cold and couldn't recommend for families. Great location if you're not too fussy.

[andyd]

Yeah for reference the place is http://www.cheznous.com/248837/chez-diana-seine-et-marne.aspx

..and its nowhere near as nice as it looks, easily the worst gite I've stayed in in 6 or so visits and most expensive (not including the hike!).... was recommended the place after the owner of the gite we usually stay in let us down last minute due to family coming or something.... if I could get a refund I'd be happy to move for sure.

Looks like a complete rip-off before the price hike. £100 a night but only sleeps 2?

Interesting that they don't mention climbing in their long list of activities available within 20 min drive. Perhaps they've never come across such a discernible community before!

[Johnny Brown]

cushions for pillows;

Welcome to France. Jim got wise to this and takes his own.

[tc]

Did you pay by credit card or cash? If you used a credit card, contact your card company, give them all the details and tell them you want them to refund your payment under "Section 75". Your credit card company must take responsibility if things go wrong with any purchase made with the card.
"It's a legal protection put in place so that you're never in the position of paying for something you didn't receive or wasn't as it should've been. Whether it's a flight, kitchen, computer or anything else, pay on the card and the card company's responsible too."

[tc]

More info here:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

[Ti_pin_man]

+1 for a gite review thread for font   

as for the situation.  I think your email is more or less a legal contract.  I hope you resolve it amicably.  If it was me, i would go to her initally humbly and say, sorry but the price agreed is the price agreed, no offense but that it.  No more.  Its legal and binding.  If she starts kicking up a fuss get less humble, more forceful but not aggressive and if that fails call the local gendarmarie.

Good luck.

[tommytwotone]

cushions for pillows;

Welcome to France. Jim got wise to this and takes his own.

See also - cheap steak knives only viable way of chopping veg.

After nearly taking the end off my finger a few times one year I now just bring my own kitchen knife from home!

[andyd]

I like the knives you get in the packet with the donkey-dick sausage in Carrefore for €2.

[Jim]

always take your own pillow(s) and sharp chef's knife 

[roddersm]

Yeah for reference the place is http://www.cheznous.com/248837/chez-diana-seine-et-marne.aspx

..and its nowhere near as nice as it looks, easily the worst gite I've stayed in in 6 or so visits and most expensive (not including the hike!).... was recommended the place after the owner of the gite we usually stay in let us down last minute due to family coming or something.... if I could get a refund I'd be happy to move for sure.

Looks like a complete rip-off before the price hike. £100 a night but only sleeps 2?

Interesting that they don't mention climbing in their long list of activities available within 20 min drive. Perhaps they've never come across such a discernible community before!

Yeah it is a rip off already we know, another Gite owner let us down after we had booked and recommended this one as a last minute alternative. We took it at face value that this place would be nice, despite the (over)price and didn't want to go hunting for gites as our dates were fixed. The place is shit,certainly the description is an embellishment to say the least but it's the owner trying to con us that is the main issue right now.... Gite owner no 1 has offered to intervene on our behalf but will see how it goes when we politefully decline to pay any additional charges.

Interesting one about the credit card might look into that one too.

 

[Paul B]

We had similar happen to us when we booked accommodation in Spain (nr. Riglos). We (actually Nat) politely told them that we weren't paying the additional amount as the mistake was theirs and we would have sought accommodation elsewhere if we'd known the 'actual' price at which point the owner politely conceded and didn't trouble us again.
Actually we didn't see them again and when it was time to leave we had to just leave the keys in the porch area.

[roddersm]

Ok quick update, had a conversation with the gite owner.... it didn't go well, all sorts of suspicious goings on here no doubt about it.

She is adamant that despite her making a mistake with the price (due to her brother being in hospital), that her father is the boss and he wants 500euro and that is that. She claims he is a lawyer and that unless we have a contract signed on-site we have no legal agreement...she has kids to raise and there is an accounting shortfall and all sorts of other nonsense... honestly never seen anything like this in my life.. apparently we can't speak with her father either, everything goes through her.

I've requested all the details in writing - who is in charge, why the price has changed etc. but I won't hold my breath. I think she has pocketed the money and claiming that we haven't paid maybe...

Luckily another local gite owner who recommended her said she will contact her father to find out what is going on.

On top of all this its too flipping hot out here..... the trip from hell so far!   

[mrjonathanr]

O unless we have a contract signed on-site we have no legal agreement

ie the French law of contract only exists in respect of hand-signed documents? No other behaviours, documentation or verbal agreements can constitute a contract? She thinks you were born yesterday.

However if she's right, you're under no obligation to pay a centime as no contract between you exists....

[Oldmanmatt]

The local tourist office or Mayors office, with copies of your correspondence.

I owned a Gite in France (well, my parents but we all ran it) for 10 years or so. French law is very, very heavily weighted to the tenant and I suspect the Mayors office would refer it straight to the Police National as fraud.

[roddersm]

Thanks Matt! Yes we are definitely thinking fraud here, that she didn't declare the original payment and now has a black hole in the company accounts.

Looking back at the email correspondence with my partner, she originally requested 500euro in her personal account and another to another account... she then changed her mind and the second went in her personal account too.

Yeah this is an omnishambles for sure, should have seen the warning signs earlier but as we were put in contact by someone we trust we were naïve. You live and learn, just need to get out of this pickle in one piece and actually get some climbing done. This will be a long night.....

[Nibile]

I thought about tax fraud first!!!
Again, be polite and do not change anything. Do not agree on anything with her.

[Luke Owens]

What a nightmare! Hope you get things sorted! It does sound like she's pocketed the cash.

We're currently looking for a gite to stay in for the end of October, certainly won't be this one! Makes me want to pitch a tent instead...

[danm]

Good luck getting things sorted.

Thankfully this sort of thing is pretty rare. Stayed in gites more than a dozen times myself now, never had any bother whatsoever.

[SA Chris]

Ask advice on the bleau.info forum?

http://bleau.info/forum/

[Nibile]

Happy ending?

[roddersm]

Hey all, sorry had no internet access for a while there...

After getting the tourist information in font (who were fantastic btw) to call the gite owner she asked us to leave the gite and she would refund our money which we were very happy to do ... well thats a condensed version, she got a bit aggressive and changed her mind then on the refund after we had packed, I threatened to get the police and eventually wrote us a (british) cheque which I expect may bounce but hey ho ... anyway we moved into another gite and did some climbing and are en route home now so yeah it was a reasonably happy ending to a nightmare start to the trip. Seems a long time ago now...

Thanks very much for all the advice, it really was a great help.           

[Ti_pin_man]

  ace result, hope cheque isn't made of rubber.   

[Oldmanmatt]

Glad it was a good trip in the end.

[roddersm]

OK just a quick update... as per expected the cheque we were given has bounced due to insufficient funds. I'm guessing going through the French courts for 1000euro is a waste of time so perhaps we'll get some joy through the credit card company. You live and learn I suppose....

Cheers,

Rodders.

[petejh]

Christ what a nightmare. In hindsight do you think it would have been possible to refuse to leave until she gave you a refund in cash?

This from her gite webpage http://www.cheznous.com/248837/chez-diana-seine-et-marne.aspx

I look forward to seeing you in my pretty gite which retains the 'spirit' of past days and the end of the 18th Century.

I take it she means the highway robbery.


At least by spreading the bad word about her gite as widely as possible you can take a little solace in the fact she's likely to lose out on a lot of potential customers.

[roddersm]

Christ what a nightmare. In hindsight do you think it would have been possible to refuse to leave until she gave you a refund in cash?

Honestly mate I couldn't have done it, the trip would have been hell. At least we had a decent week enjoying the climbing and being in font rather than being stressed out as to what she may do to our stuff while we were out each day ...it was that bad.

As soon as she put in writing she would refund us I was out of there, even though I didn't trust her to follow through at least we have evidence that she agreed a refund.

The mistake was booking there in the first place... I'm sure not many climbers will end up there but take my word for it stay clear of this place, this woman is a total fraud.   

[battery]

We've stayed in that place previously, not sure what we paid for it as my other half booked it but we did find it, and her, a little strange. it isn't great but it wasn't the worst place in the world... once we'd removed the family photos and teddies which I thought was a bit creepy! The rats in the garden didn't come near the house but were a little unsettling.

She struck me as a really sad and lonely (and weird) lady, every time she saw us we would be stuck for ages listening to her life story. I do remember something about her Dad being a lawyer. She's a Brit, staying near Paris so the kids can see their dad after a messy divorce. She was running activities for kids as it was school holidays and doing all sorts to earn money so fraud would not surprise me.

The accommodation recommendations thread is a brilliant idea, will contribute later.

[slackline]

Is this not a case for going with Gites registered with Gites-de-France or does that provide no additional reassurance?

The accommodation recommendations thread is a brilliant idea, will contribute later.

If you can be bothered to add them to the Wiki that would be useful.

[SA Chris]

Maybe some feedback on trip advisor or similar too?

[highrepute]

did you have holiday insurance? they might pay up something.

[roddersm]

We've stayed in that place previously, not sure what we paid for it as my other half booked it but we did find it, and her, a little strange. it isn't great but it wasn't the worst place in the world... once we'd removed the family photos and teddies which I thought was a bit creepy! The rats in the garden didn't come near the house but were a little unsettling.

She struck me as a really sad and lonely (and weird) lady, every time she saw us we would be stuck for ages listening to her life story. I do remember something about her Dad being a lawyer. She's a Brit, staying near Paris so the kids can see their dad after a messy divorce. She was running activities for kids as it was school holidays and doing all sorts to earn money so fraud would not surprise me.

The accommodation recommendations thread is a brilliant idea, will contribute later.

Yeah fits with our experience of her. I'd feel sorry for her but for the fact she tried, well succeeded actually it seems, to rip us off. Obviously she was desperate for the cash but that's no excuse. She is a very twisted and strange individual, I couldn't post half of it because you'd have to meet her to believe some of her antics...

Slack_line yeah in future I'd stick with Gites de France, we used to but usually they are a bit less flexible with the dates.

No holiday insurance unfortunately...