[outlawed]

Could you not just nail this project down, Lee?

This isn't yoof speak for actually doing it (hook that shit up, smash it in etc etc etc), but actually physically nailing it down to deter the Liverpudlians stealing it. As loathe as I am to resort to stereotypes.

Straight out of Toxteth!

The accepted etiquette amongst the vast majority of climbers is that if someone bolts and cleans a new line they get first dibs on trying to do the first ascent of that particular route.  You are in what i believe is a small minority in thinking that bolting something gives someone no claim over that piece of rock, you've gone further in saying that first ascents don't actually matter.  This is your opinion and you've stated it more than once.  There's no need to state it again because you're not going to change the mind of most people who respect this etiquette which exists in the majority of new routing scenes.  The folk having a go at Lee are doing so because of the length of time he's been on the route.

not taking anything on board. Spewing out the party line dont make anything less true. Maybe if you all shout loud enough, reality will change to fit your perfect reality.

[Doylo]

I've been climbing long enough and met enough climbers to know the reality.

[masonwoods101]

outlawed is obviously just spamming he has posted nothing of use to the topic since his first post and has only tried to wind people up since then... It's a sensitive and personal topic for some people and childish spamming dosent help

[Jaspersharpe]

Same shit, different forum?

Not really. Actually not at all. It's just that acting like a cunt is tolerated far less round here and that generally makes people think more before they post stuff.

Which is a good thing.

[John Boy]

Hey,hey.

The point is 9 years is too long to 'own the land'. What a ridiculous claim Lee is making!

The only strength to his argument, which I admit I respect, is that the community he lives in, the climbing community, attaches some importance and validity to it. Non climbers would laugh their ass off.

So Lee, we respect your claim, but if in a years time I can climb your route and you haven't done it I will.

[webbo]

Tossed.

[Monolith]

Hey,hey.

The point is 9 years is too long to 'own the land'. What a ridiculous claim Lee is making!

The only strength to his argument, which I admit I respect, is that the community he lives in, the climbing community, attaches some importance and validity to it. Non climbers would laugh their ass off.

So Lee, we respect your claim, but if in a years time I can climb your route and you haven't done it I will.

It's one line. Can't you just leave the man be? Have you really managed to climb the rest of north Wales out? Perhaps you're Neil Carson?

 I amongst many others here have a project and for those of us not completely flush with time, with family and an other life outside of climbing etc., the pressures against an individual to perform at their limit, at a given time in given conditions are immense. Yes non-climbers might find this ridiculous but we choose to imbue and bestow meaning upon pieces of rock. I'm fine with this and if it contributes towards our reason to be, then so be it.

[Jaspersharpe]

Well said Tom but unfortunately I think your sensible words will fall on deaf ears.

I've been puntered (by a prick who is now banned, interestingly) for saying it before, but you can't educate pork.

[ianto9]

 :clap2:agree jb get off your little trip go climb something else ,enjoy yourself and climb it after lee has finished his project,life's too short to be a dick,I don't know lee but I've had a long project myself with limited time to climb(but that doesn't matter)if you bolted/cleaned it you'd realise its yours,just wait. 

Hey,hey.

The point is 9 years is too long to 'own the land'. What a ridiculous claim Lee is making!

The only strength to his argument, which I admit I respect, is that the community he lives in, the climbing community, attaches some importance and valid

[Nibile]

but if in a years time I can climb your route and you haven't done it I will.

What? All this fuss and pressure and you don't even have the level to climb the route?!
So why?

[Oldmanmatt]

Hey,hey.

The point is 9 years is too long to 'own the land'. What a ridiculous claim Lee is making!

The only strength to his argument, which I admit I respect, is that the community he lives in, the climbing community, attaches some importance and validity to it. Non climbers would laugh their ass off.

So Lee, we respect your claim, but if in a years time I can climb your route and you haven't done it I will.

It's one line. Can't you just leave the man be? Have you really managed to climb the rest of north Wales out? Perhaps you're Neil Carson?

 I amongst many others here have a project and for those of us not completely flush with time, with family and an other life outside of climbing etc., the pressures against an individual to perform at their limit, at a given time in given conditions are immense. Yes non-climbers might find this ridiculous but we choose to imbue and bestow meaning upon pieces of rock. I'm fine with this and if it contributes towards our reason to be, then so be it.

+1

Arguing over a few meters of damp lime...

That wouldn't have meant anything to anyone outside the area, if it hadn't been bolted by someone with an ambition.

Bored, are we guys?

It's a personal challenge for Lee.

Let him be.

What do you want from it?

The FA?

Just to beat him to it?


If there was any dispute over who's route it is, this thread has ended it.

Lee.
Good climbing mate.
Sod 'em.

[outlawed]

Critic answering time.

Yes, done FAs, not claimed one, dont care. Done plenty of piss taking others claims in new route books.

You really think banging in a few bolts gives you a claim? So, trad routes and boulder problems are fair game then are they? Like that Shark said about Gibson.

Last week i came across a piece of cardboard at a bouldering venue. Someone had written project on it and put a stone on it. I took it out, like i would all litter.

'Abnormal, immoral, fuck you, (k)nob. and other abuse. Grow the fuck up. It's just dicking around on an ultimately meaningless bit of rock.

Should be a bit of fun? Lost your way. Abuse and hatred.

[outlawed]

Sorry. Forgot to add cunt to the list of things been called on here.

If that's what you call people who disagree with you about climbing things, you're going to have a shortage of expletives when you learn what this government are doing that's killing people.

Get a grip. And some civility

[petejh]

  I think someone's taking this topic a bit too seriously.

Everyone! Get a grip!!! 
Governments, our government, are killing people for christ sake! Forget climbing rocks they'll still be there after we've saved the dead people  - shut this unimportant topic down right now and focus all attention on preparing for the revolution, you selfish hedonistic fuckers. 

Go tell your wife/partner/best mate etc. to 'get a grip' next time they're interested by some ultimately irrelevant topic enough to have a moderate opinion on it.

[outlawed]

outlawed is obviously just spamming he has posted nothing of use to the topic since his first post and has only tried to wind people up since then... It's a sensitive and personal topic for some people and childish spamming dosent help

correction. I have been forced in to a corner after my first post by aggressive people. I'll come out swinging. What would you do, hide?

At least you said my first post had use.

[chris j]

I amongst many others here have a project and for those of us not completely flush with time, with family and an other life outside of climbing etc., the pressures against an individual to perform at their limit, at a given time in given conditions are immense.

I must admit that if you are in this situation then keeping a project closed long term seems to me to be quite a selfish act. Unless you're at the cutting edge I don't think that many people are actually overly concerned who did the first ascent of a line. Everyone who is familiar with a crag will know who had the vision to bolt the route and open up the line so surely it shows a certain humility to open up the project, accept that for you the personal challenge is still there and that it doesn't really matter a gnat's fart who does the first ascent. It's got to be better than standing there going "f*ck you all, I bolted it, keep off until I've done it!" which to be frank just smacks of ego driven wank.

Not that I'm in a position to be stealing anyone's projects but feel free to punter me as you like.

[outlawed]

I think someone's taking this topic a bit too seriously.

Everyone! Get a grip!!! 
Governments, our government, are killing people for christ sake! Forget climbing rocks they'll still be there after we've saved the dead people  - shut this unimportant topic down right now and focus all attention on preparing for the revolution, you selfish hedonistic fuckers. 

Go tell your wife/partner/best mate etc. to 'get a grip' next time they're interested by some ultimately irrelevant topic enough to have a moderate opinion on it.

You didn't pick up the irony of over exaggeration then.

i agree, ultimately irrelevant. So why the venom and personal abuse, and why are you continuing it? Have you not thought of reaching out in honest friendship it worked for you with your guidebook!

[outlawed]

I amongst many others here have a project and for those of us not completely flush with time, with family and an other life outside of climbing etc., the pressures against an individual to perform at their limit, at a given time in given conditions are immense.

I must admit that if you are in this situation then keeping a project closed long term seems to me to be quite a selfish act. Unless you're at the cutting edge I don't think that many people are actually overly concerned who did the first ascent of a line. Everyone who is familiar with a crag will know who had the vision to bolt the route and open up the line so surely it shows a certain humility to open up the project, accept that for you the personal challenge is still there and that it doesn't really matter a gnat's fart who does the first ascent. It's got to be better than standing there going "f*ck you all, I bolted it, keep off until I've done it!" which to be frank just smacks of ego driven wank.

Not that I'm in a position to be stealing anyone's projects but feel free to punter me as you like.

THIS!

[shark]

You really think banging in a few bolts gives you a claim? So, trad routes and boulder problems are fair game then are they? Like that Shark said about Gibson.

There is all the difference in the world between banging a few bolts in and not even trying the line for a couple of years and banging a few bolts in and then consistently trying the line year in, and year out and it becoming the biggest climbing goal of your life.

Unless you are Steve Mac then there will always be someone better than you capable of doing your new route project. There's enough pressure projecting without having to watch over your shoulder all the time. Fortunately 99% of climbers respect that a closed project which is actively attempted is off-limits until abandoned or at least that used to be the case.

Having said that I take a belt and braces approach and remove the hangers after each session.

[Doylo]

I think someone's taking this topic a bit too seriously.

Everyone! Get a grip!!! 
Governments, our government, are killing people for christ sake! Forget climbing rocks they'll still be there after we've saved the dead people  - shut this unimportant topic down right now and focus all attention on preparing for the revolution, you selfish hedonistic fuckers. 

Go tell your wife/partner/best mate etc. to 'get a grip' next time they're interested by some ultimately irrelevant topic enough to have a moderate opinion on it.

there's people starving in Africa you know. Someone mentioned it on the North Wales guide thread....

[outlawed]

I think someone's taking this topic a bit too seriously.

Everyone! Get a grip!!! 
Governments, our government, are killing people for christ sake! Forget climbing rocks they'll still be there after we've saved the dead people  - shut this unimportant topic down right now and focus all attention on preparing for the revolution, you selfish hedonistic fuckers. 

Go tell your wife/partner/best mate etc. to 'get a grip' next time they're interested by some ultimately irrelevant topic enough to have a moderate opinion on it.

there's people starving in Africa you know. Someone mentioned it on the North Wales guide thread....

last year 350,000 visits to Manchester food banks. We can discuss all this politics if you want.

As i said, i was deliberately over exaggerating a point.

Once again, you've come across wilfully misunderstanding, playing to a gallery of your friends, like it's a fucking school playground.

Thanks Shark. Actually engaging in debate. Whether we disagree or not, you're at least an adult.

[Doylo]

well go and play with the big boys then, you've made your point enough times, you're like a stuck record

[masonwoods101]

Outlawed... Your first comment was your opinion. From then on its was winding people up

[MattD]

This is getting silly now.

I only wanted to know if it was an 'active' project, which it clearly is, so I'd know if i should leave it alone or not. I was clearly wrong to think we could just leave it at that (with a bit of piss-taking as is expected on this forum). 

I've lurked on this thing for years and count it as a valuable resource for keen climbers in the UK, I start my first thread and look what happens! Chill the fuck out boys, time to zip up and put it away. Leave Lee to try his route.

Oh, and sorry to Lee for the added stress I'm sure this thread has caused.

[Serpico]

Is it not reasonable that someone who has spent a lot of their time and money developing and re-equipping an area should be allowed this one indulgence as a thank you for their efforts?