[Zen]

So...

I started bouldering around November last year exclusively indoors at my local gym. Since then I've progressed from the easiest of the easiest beginner climbs and rapidly progressed from then onwards - I regularly punt about at around 6c+/7a and a few weeks ago I managed to top a 7a+, my hardest grade yet.

Last week, I bought a bouldering mat and today I managed to go outside for the first time to Craigmaddie, north of Glasgow. Out of the 50 problems on offer and 16 or so that we tried, I could only manage two, a Font 3 warm-up route and a 4. We had a few runs on a 5+ juggy roof/lip problem but I couldn't mantle for the last move because I have never, ever 'properly' mantled before.

All round, the lack of decent footholds was nigh-on hilarious, everything felt sketchy, I couldn't work out most of the sequences and I spent a considerable amount of time near the end standing around thinking "I am absolute shit at this."

So, with all of the above said, does anyone have any much needed advice? How often should I be going outside to get good at bouldering outside? Is the lack of a floor-sized crash mat perhaps affecting me subconsciously?

Also, massive kudos to anyone hitting 7's and 8's outside, I appreciate that level of climbing a whole lot more now!

[psychomansam]

Footwork. Note the second half of the word. Work on it.

Find the smallest feet you can to play with inside and practice precise, silent footwork. Get the foot in the right place, at the right angle, first time and without any noise.

That's still not going to do a huge amount because even the smallest feet indoors are too big. You need to get outside and just move on rock. Traverses might be a good way to practice footwork without feeling too uncomfortable.  If there isn't much you can climb, then climb the same thing again but better - more smoothly, less noisily/jerkily and with some style. Then do it again using smaller feet.

Go to Fontainebleau. The best way to improve technique and have a damn good time.

[MJC]

Is the lack of a floor-sized crash mat perhaps affecting me subconsciously?

I would have thought it was quite obvious, on a conscious level!

[duncan]

All round, the lack of decent footholds was nigh-on hilarious, everything felt sketchy, I couldn't work out most of the sequences and I spent a considerable amount of time near the end standing around thinking "I am absolute shit at this."

So, with all of the above said, does anyone have any much needed advice? How often should I be going outside to get good at bouldering outside?

The main point to remember is modern climbing walls are rubbish (no question mark) for training for outside. Ironically, they are especially rubbish for training for easy climbing outside. If you want to climb well on rock my (only slightly tongue-in-cheek) suggestion is to avoid climbing walls completely until you have learnt to move efficiently. This can take years.

Off to the wall for an early session now.

[Fultonius]

Craigmaddie is about as far from indoor bouldering as you can get - it's all subtle power, body positioning and footwork.

Get down to Dumbarton a couple of times a week. You will get spanked for a while but there will always be friendly knowledgeable locals to show you "the knack" for the problems. If you can climb 7A in Dumby you should be able to do it anywhere!

[Nibile]

The lack of enormous pads surely affects you, but it's not a real issue. Often a good spotter is better than a pad.
Anyway, what the others have said. Footwork, core tension, sense of movement, control.
In gyms problems are "feet follow hands" and that means that you use really good footholds: this doesn't happen on rock.
Moreover, on rock you have to be more precise, because hand and footholds do not always stick massively out of the surface.
Basically, keep training on different style of problems, keep going outdoor on different style of problems and keep the fucking faith.
Oh and Pink Anasazi.

[tomtom]

Its normal..

Theres also a 'calibration time' to be factored in, that if you are used to climbing on one type of material (be it plywood and plastic or limestone) then when you move to a different medium you get spanked. It takes a little while to get used to it. As you get more experienced you adjust faster - but for example, most people who go to font will climb nothing like their regular grade for a couple of days, it takes a while to adjust to the different rock, climbing style, feet placements etc...

The traversing advice given further down is really good - this is a great way to get yourself dialed into the rock and the conditions. As Lore said, keep the faith, and now you have that 5 mantel problem to get back to next visit and get done, then move on to trying something a little harder and.......

[Fiend]

Laps on the TCA slab B2B Dumby sessions. BTW indoor grades are bollox and TCA's are the worst in the history of mankind.

[Stewart]

What Fultonius said - Craigmaddie is a tricky venue to learn at. It is quite subtle and a lot of the easy stuff isn't that obvious without someone telling you where to go. The best bit is the high crag up the top, don't worry about the grades, just climb as much easy stuff as poss.

Dumbarton can be a bit intimidating but it really is great and all the other climbers are very approachable. Prob best to avoid friday and saturday evening for the first time down as this is the most popular time for the local non climbers to get bevvied and it can be a bit off-putting

 

I spent a considerable amount of time near the end standing around thinking "I am absolute shit at this."

I presume there are some climbers out there who don't think this at some point but i've not met them! Unfortunately this is one thing that doesn't change as you move through the grades 

[Nibile]

Oh, and yes, indoor grades are useless.
Only the Beastmaker grades count.

[gardinrm]

This is quite a common complaint in climbing, but try not to be put off. All the strength you've worked up inside will quickly apply outside. The best advice i can offer is to find someone who is really experienced outside and go with them. They will know what problems are worth climbing, but more importantly how to climb them. Also, being Scottish, i know that grades in the north are 'interesting'. The key thing is not really the grade, but the feeling of climbing something you have found hard and TOPPING OUT. Seriously, thats the point really, the sense of getting on top of your problem. Everyone i know who is a climber uses the wal for training, but would much rather be outside. Persist and i'm sure you will feel the same soon.

[slackline]

Seems to be a recurring question/theme.

In light of this I started a page on the wiki and if anyone can be arsed bulking it out with whatever advice they would normally throw into a thread like this it might serve as a useful resource to point people to.

See here.

[Zen]

Awesome advice, and now that I've had a day to gather my thoughts and rethink the problems I tried yesterday, I feel a whole lot better and more enthusiastic about the prospect of bouldering more outdoors. I'm not far from Dumby so I'll be sure to jump down at some point soon and give it a go.

Another thing I noticed was how fresh my fingers feel after climbing real rock; with plastic it only takes around 2 or 3 hours for them to start nipping, and while they were tired from yesterday evening the skin still feels awesome.

Thanks again for the advice, I've decided to take my first week off from bouldering since I started, both indoor and out, sort my new shoes out (Dragons with a better heel than my Teams, which proved hellish yesterday with all that sideways stuff), regain some focus, drive and patience, then hit everything hard (or smoothly and quietly, should I say) after next week.

[gardinrm]

Reading between the lines there, i think you may have inappropriate shoes as well. Dragons and teams are more for very steep or overhanging rock like limestone (esp the dragons, it's what they're for). This will make you struggle with footwork on more slabby stuff or problems that require foot friction. Anasazi's will be much better for this. VCS are the most popular, but greens and whites are excellent too. Depends on your foot shape etc.

[psychomansam]

Scarpa Vapours are great as well. I have the lace ups which are extra stiff for edging.

Although they may be a bit wide for you if you can even get teams/dragons on - in which case the anasazi whites or low volume ones maybe.

You don't need to be in agony in your feet to be climbing well either. Go for something reasonable.

To point out what really matters, I spent a year being trained in outdoor education by a 60 year old instructor who climbed in socks, shoes with spare room at the front and gear from the 80's. His footwork was some of the best I've seen. He onsighted a multipitch E5 at some point in the year.

[Zen]

I suppose the catch is that I prefer to climb steeper rock and roofs than I do climbing slabs or vertical walls. I also have oddly shaped, low volume feet and I've got so used to the sensitivity of Teams that I really, really can't go back to wearing anything with a thicker sole or any support along the foot. I tried Dragons on a few weeks back and fell in love, they fit perfect.

A better option would be stiffer shoes with the same fit and almost the same level of feel? Does this sound like any shoes anyone has tried?

[Durbs]

What took me quite a while to learn, was actually weighting feet properly.

Going outside, especially on grit, you realise just how good rockboots are at gripping. My First couple of sessions I was over-gripping and using arms far too much as I just didn't trust my feet. But it's amazing what you can actually stand on/use outdoors - but if you're pulling to much with your arms, you lessen the pressure (and thus friction) going through your feet.

I was also amazed at the difference between a 5+ "crimp" indoors, and a 5+ crimp outdoors. Worlds apart. But with the right footwork, it clicked that the hold is just to hold you on, the feet to push you up, especially on slabs/faces. So instead of pulling down on what I thought was a ridiculously small pebble, I just held on to it to keep the body in, and stood up on a "rubbish smear" which was anything but.

(I still suck outdoors, and indoors actually, but repeated trips outdoors and it starts to make sense)

[Pebblespanker]

What took me quite a while to learn, was actually weighting feet properly.

Reminds me of a session recently where we were doing a problem on tiny crimps and nodules on a steep slab... I suddenly realised when stood on the tiny nodules (about the size of half a kids marble for thse old enough to remember marbles) I could stand completely in balance (just) both hands off ...  salutory lesson in not crimping like a bastard all the time and actually use my feet properly... how easy it is to forget and also how to get needlessly pumped, what a punter lol 

Try a similar exercise outdoors, get on something off vertical and see how many fingers, then hands are actually really necessary to stay in contact, obviously not on a steep wall or roof. Confidence in feet should rise accordingly... and if this is a weakness give it lots of focus, watch others and see what they are doing and train it at every opportunity

[fried]

I swear that indoor climbing ruins beginner climbers. My level outdoors has stayed at a constant low level for a while, but I reckon I'm technically worse but stronger. I don't get out enough (crap weather, la la la...). I don't need to work out how to climb problems anymore, I just pull myself up them.

[tomtom]

I swear that indoor climbing ruins beginner climbers. My level outdoors has stayed at a constant low level for a while, but I reckon I'm technically worse but stronger. I don't get out enough (crap weather, la la la...). I don't need to work out how to climb problems anymore, I just pull myself up them.

Its the media you get used to... I climb (at the moment) predominantly outside. I go to a wall and get spanked by their grades...

[fried]

Basically if you climb more indoors, you get better climbing indoors and if you climb more outdoors you get better at climbing oudoors.

[Ti_pin_man]

i agree with most of whats been said. 

Zen:  " that I prefer to climb steeper rock and roofs "  - I'm no expert but that sounds like you're quite strong physically but as others have said, technique and feet sound like the weakness. 

I think we all prefer to climb what we're good at. 

I'm crap at the strong stuff but like 'head games' routes, things that take a bit of figuring out.  I need to get stronger, loose weight and do more caves.  Horses for courses.

[Zen]

Basically if you climb more indoors, you get better climbing indoors and if you climb more outdoors you get better at climbing oudoors.

Guess I'll need to get myself outdoors more often then

I'm no expert but that sounds like you're quite strong physically but as others have said, technique and feet sound like the weakness. 

Well I suppose I am physically strong in the sense that I can chuck my sub-9-stone self around pretty damn well, although I admit I am lacking quite a lot in the footwork department. I practice quiet feet constantly but all it takes is for a tricky section on a problem and it all goes out of the window and the scrambling ensues. I'm daring myself not to count a climb as done unless the technique is sound and I'm happy it's been done as smoothly as possible.

[Zen]

Does anyone else have any ideas for practicing mantles in an indoor environment? It's something that's gonna need more work than a once-a-week jaunt outside can offer, what about exercises or routines that work the same muscles or technique?

[Dr T]

Does anyone else have any ideas for practicing mantles in an indoor environment?

Dips....