[Adam Lincoln]

Wishing someone dies horribly for expressing an opinion is at best childish and stupid and at worst extremely offensive. Adam, you're not doing yourself or your argument any favours whatsoever.

There are many people on this thread who have been personally affected by cancer, myself included. Debate is one thing, hoping for a nasty death of someone is another.

No need.

I respect your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree then. I wont be looking at this thread again, its not good for my blood pressure.

[Oldmanmatt]

Um, Adam?

He's not going to listen.

He doesn't have to, as he would be quick to point out.

History is replete with examples of ideological cant overcoming any semblance of common sense.

I'd like to think he was trolling, but I suspect it might be an example of the above.

Trust me, his lack of empathy, makes me grind my teeth; his desire to thrust that into the faces of others?
Well, that may one day be something he comes to regret. Few people maintain such beliefs into old age, black and white run together with age.

You should not let his opinion bother you.

I, on the other hand, sympathise and understand all those affected by this disease. And any other terminal illness. Or loss and Bereavement.
Those things are not ideas or beliefs, they are harsh realities, not idle contemplations from the arm chair.

John is facing death.

We all do, but his is coming sooner than expected and he can see how close it is. I have now known many such people. His response, is exceptional. Many can barely draw the curtains or leave their beds.

What then, Three Nine, is worthy of respect?

1-5-9 on a campus board?

Running faster than a few other people?

No?

John has earned the respect of many, that he has incurred your animosity is irrelevant.

 

[Will Hunt]

do we need to respects Armstrong too?

The guy was the first human to walk on the moon. What more do you want?
 

[GCW]

What have we become?

[GraemeA]

Fucking hell, just been told about this thread and have to say I am shocked by some of the posts.

For the record I am a trustee of CAC so have had very long talks with John about why it was set up. And it may surprise you that it has fuck all to do with raising money. CAC has raised approximately £100k in six months, which is fucking amazing, but as both John and me know it is pissing in the wind compared with the amount of money raised by Cancer Research UK etc. John's vision is to raise AWARENESS because that can save more lives, maybe if John himself had been screened earlier he might be on a different path now and his hope is that the campaign can save others merely being making them aware of the risks they might face in later life. And lets face it blokes are particularly shit at getting screened.

(BTW it is of course concievable that the money raised by CAC could have an effect especially as it is being donated directly to research facilities rather than fund raising organisations. Who knows, the 15,000 Aussie dollars donated last week might just help fund some researcher who makes a break through)

I am in Chamonix for the European Champs and it is heart warming to see the number of people of ALL ages wearing CAC shirts because I am sure that at least a good number of them will think/realise that cancer messes with most of us one way or the other and that if they get screened or they advise other to be screened then lives can be saved or significantly prolonged.

So for those of you who said they don't like to advertise their good works, well maybe think again.

And for the tit who said seeing the CAC logo makes them vom, well each to their own. I don't wish terminal diseases on you but I do hope that flocks of pigeons follow you around and crap on you constantly.

(Bit pissed here in Chamonix and it's now 1.30am but felt I had to respond)

[underground]

Fuck me. I don't particularly like the way TK Maxx and chavs in general are punting Paul's Boutique stuff, but I just accept it, even if it is a ripoff of a Beastie Boys album title in spite of Adam Yauch dying of salivary gland cancer at the age of 47... and every twitterati and their friend lamented his passing...

So, here we have a strong, positive guy, John Ellison, with a terminal cancer, he's going to die - be dead, gone - as Matt and Graeme have said, could just give up and not open the curtains, yet he's doing something here that most of us will never achieve in our lifetimes outside of what we have to do to make a crust at work - and some people are bitching about t shirts? Maybe the same people who wear 'Surfers Against Sewage' t shirts, donate to the bolt fund, bitch about bird bans on crags, really want their right to roam and love the CRoW act and would lament its demise..... If it was 'Climber Against Bolting on Stanage' or 'No Debolting on the Great Orme' everyone would be balls out for it, so why this tirade FFS? What about going to prison if you trespassed on Kinder or even, were put to death for being homosexual?

There's more to worry about - and being afflicted or affected by cancer is a pretty fucking big one, and in my humble opinion, being 'pissed off' by a t shirt is fucking pathetic in the greater context, when people are going about with their arses hanging out of drainpipe jeans and vests are subject to discussion in case they're wack (no offence tomtom), and people are dying far too soon.

My best and oldest friend died of lymphoma 2 years ago - he was a lovely man, 2 months older than me and very fit, active, didn't abuse fags or alcohol, and was like a beacon in the fog - I always knew he was there and could spend time with him and always feel happy and grounded, no matter how I was doing, he was also the guy I did all my early climbing with and even times when my arrogance outdid my abilities, a day on VSs with him would set me right. We did a carpentry course together and talked about going back to the mountains when I had less work on. I could trust him, implicitly, and then one day, he told me he was ill.... less than a year later, he was dead...... gone. Final. I think about him every single day, and wish I'd had one last chat....

So.... some people on this thread, just have a think, about your best mate, your rock.... I didn't wear a CAC t shirt but I've just bought one, and I'll wear it with pride. If you don't like it, I'd love you to come and have a chat with me to discuss the matter.

[a dense loner]

Can someone else pls reiterate that they haven't got a t-shirt but of course they donate.

[Nibile]

Just yesterday I was having mods pm me threatening a ban

Adam and all the other cross people: no I don't have to be all respectful of this chap

Two things:
1) what happens in PM stays in PM.
2) you don't HAVE TO, you should naturally be respectful of him. Dislike and respect can go together.

[Oldmanmatt]

Hmmm...

I wonder?


http://www.theonion.com/articles/insurance-company-gets-fucked-over-by-another-canc,33101/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Status:2:Default

[lagerstarfish]

I knew nothing of CAC until this thread caught my attention

no such thing as bad publicity, eh?

[Monolith]

A terminally ill man has the motivational resolve of an entire continent and this is how he gets to see his efforts played out.

The matter doesn't need debate; the cause needs funds to contribute towards the advancement of scientific gains and that's all I see to the matter. Quite why a load of chin stroking bollocks here exists is utterly fucking beyond me. It really is.

[lagerstarfish]

apart from this thread, twitter and facebook, is there anywhere else that I should mention my anonymous donation?

[GraemeA]

You could take out a banner ad on UKC

[lagerstarfish]

You could take out a banner ad on UKC

what's "UKC" ?

is this another thing that I should be donating to and not wearing a t-shirt?

[SA Chris]

A terminally ill man has the motivational resolve of an entire continent and this is how he gets to see his efforts played out.

I expect he really couldn't care; I'm sure he has a lot more on his mind than a couple of utterly inconsequential naysayers.

[Monolith]

Word Chris.

[ian dunn]

Some of the posts on here make my blood boil.
CAC is about raising awareness. if one person goes and gets a check up and has a cancer that is caught early then it is all worthwhile. This was something that didn't happen for John it was too late, hence his terminal diagnosis.
I went and had a check, which I would never have done without CAC and John's situation.
Sure the money raised is small compared with what is required but you have to start somewhere, but it is being distributed to research around the world and someone somewhere might just find a cure which will benefit millions of people, and year on year it will grow.

John isn't doing this to promote himself, he would be more than happy to swop positions with anyone who wants to have his cancer, and take his treatment and fade into the background, but that unfortunately can't happen. He has to take the treatment and does so with a smile and all the time trying to raise awareness of this disease that affect's so many of us and is killing him.

To those out there that think this is some ego trip, then first you haven't got a clue about what John is going through or know John, or Shauna who has supported John from the start. And second if you think wearing a CAC T shirt is a statement trying to make out you are some kind of charity giving saint, well its a lot better than some fashion or football brand stamped across your chest.

The CAC brand is global, there are thousands of people happy to support it and that is a testament to its founder John Ellison who is putting the remaining days of his life into raising awareness of this awful disease. I like many in the climbing world are fully behind John and his vision and I will be very unhappy went he can't continue to share it with us.

To those critics I hope that cancer doesn't affect you but if it does then you might wish you had been a little bit more supportive of a great initiative rather than post bullshit.

[dave]

If awareness is the goal then maybe a slogan a bit more specific might be good, like something to remind people to "get checked out", or pointing out what exact types of cancer often go undiagnosed in the early stages, or which types suffer from stigma attached to getting yourself checked etc. But then I'm sure if the shirts just said "CHECK YOUR BOLLOCKS/TITS (DELETE AS APPLICABLE)" then nobody would buy them as a fashion/lifestyle statement so its a tough call.

As it stands the t-shirt didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, i.e. I already know cancer exists, and I'd already assumed that all climbers being human beings would be "against" it. But maybe it is helping awareness for some people, I don't know.

For this reason I must admit generally I think we'd be better off donating to cancer research charities rather than buying awareness products. Whether £x would have a more beneficial effect spent on research or awareness is up for debate.

I also appreciate that to anyone who knows John this will probably be taken as a massive slur on the campaign, a personal insult, and render me about as popular as an Alex Megos problem name.

[GraemeA]

For this reason I must admit generally I think we'd be better off donating to cancer research charities rather than buying awareness products. Whether £x would have a more beneficial effect spent on research or awareness is up for debate.

Reading what people have posted might help. The money raised is being donated directly to cancer research facilities not to charities that employ lots of people.

The equation is quite simple. Costs of the shirts are approx 20-25% of the sale price and this is roughly how much the big charities cost to run so you are effectively donating the same amount AND raising awareness.

[dave]

I'm sure there's plenty of research you could be donating to that don't have 25% overheads. For example wherever the CAC money goes to, whats to stop people donating directly to them and they get 25-33.3% more cash?

[Paul B]

If awareness is the goal then maybe a slogan a bit more specific might be good, like something to remind people to "get checked out", or pointing out what exact types of cancer often go undiagnosed in the early stages, or which types suffer from stigma attached to getting yourself checked etc. But then I'm sure if the shirts just said "CHECK YOUR BOLLOCKS/TITS (DELETE AS APPLICABLE)" then nobody would buy them as a fashion/lifestyle statement so its a tough call.

I have to agree with Dave here.

When earlier on in the thread the topic of 'awareness' was raised I had a look around the CAC website and came to similar conclusions. Call me stupid but I didn't overly recognize it (the shirts) as raising awareness of Cancer (I topped out on one of the best routes of my life to a text that my Gran had died of Cancer that day so my awareness is fairly high).

It (the shirts) and the various sponsored events I've seen people take part in appeared to me like fund-raising (which is no bad thing). However, if awareness is the main goal wouldn't getting a load (the same load) of blokes that spend a fair amount of time training (shirts off) to man up and get checked be more productive?

I remember hearing on the radio a few years ago that there was a guy walking around Sheffield dressed as a giant testicle as his brother had died earlier that year from testicular cancer. An extreme tactic but that made me think more about getting checked myself than seeing a t-shirt.

Hopefully none of the above will be seen as Three Nine style hating on CAC. 

[Duma]

If awareness is the goal then maybe a slogan a bit more specific might be good, like something to remind people to "get checked out", or pointing out what exact types of cancer often go undiagnosed in the early stages, or which types suffer from stigma attached to getting yourself checked etc. But then I'm sure if the shirts just said "CHECK YOUR BOLLOCKS/TITS (DELETE AS APPLICABLE)" then nobody would buy them as a fashion/lifestyle statement so its a tough call.

I have to agree with Dave here.

When earlier on in the thread the topic of 'awareness' was raised I had a look around the CAC website and came to similar conclusions. Call me stupid but I didn't overly recognize it (the shirts) as raising awareness of Cancer (I topped out on one of the best routes of my life to a text that my Gran had died of Cancer that day so my awareness is fairly high).

It (the shirts) and the various sponsored events I've seen people take part in appeared to me like fund-raising (which is no bad thing). However, if awareness is the main goal wouldn't getting a load (the same load) of blokes that spend a fair amount of time training (shirts off) to man up and get checked be more productive?

+1. CAC has obviously done very well as fund raising, but the only place I've seen raising awareness mentioned as the goal is on this thread.

[GraemeA]

+1. CAC has obviously done very well as fund raising, but the only place I've seen raising awareness mentioned as the goal is on this thread.

Well done Paul, you have completely missed the point. John (and to a much lesser extent me) has realised that the best PR campaigns don't actually spell out what the campaign is about.

[Paul B]

Well done Paul, you have completely missed the point.

That was pretty much my point and I'm clearly not alone (unless I'm really confused).

[Fiend]

Finally got around to buying a couple of CAC t-shirts...

I could say that it's because one of my immediate family survived cancer in the past (which they did), or because a friend's father just had a bowel cancer operation (which he did), or because they're a nice selection of colours (which they are), or because they're a decent price (which they are, especially compared to some outdoor make t-shirts in Tiso that were reduced from £32 to err £25, fuck that), or because I needed some new t-shirts (which I did), or because it's an easy way to be a little bit charitable whilst getting something for yourself (which it is).

But, no....

It's because Three Nine is a knob. That's why I got them.

Also because Lund was a bit of a dome about the calendar too. I didn't want a calendar but I still might have a "wank for cancer", just in case.