[Adam Lincoln]

I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this.

Though it doesn't alter the validity of your other comments, it probably should be noted that this thread was split off from Shauna's blogpile thread, not actually "started" as such.

It doesn't show that its a split thread, which in the case of this thread, is a bad thing as it makes it look like three five nine has started this off his own steam. So whilst i don't agree with him, i take back what i said about you, the thread splitting has made you look unnecessarily wanker'ish!

[JamieG]

Careful here.

Sorry i think my post was a bit of a knee-jerk because in my opinion 39 was getting in the neck because apparently t-shirts about cancer are a taboo subject.

i think Davo sums up my feelings pretty well.

hmmm in what possible context is giving money to cancer research not a good use of their disposable income?

Large charities spend lots of money on wages and administration, sometimes in ways that people don't agree with. Although, from what I can tell, John is donating directly to research labs he's selected so this isn't a risk here.
The word "cancer" goes a long way in securing grants for researchers. In my experience many grants/paper working on a cancer theme are a long way off what you'd probably recognise as cancer research (again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing).
"Leave it to charity" is the approach of government to many things, cancer research being one. Some would argue that we shouldn't need to donate so much to cancer research

I don't necessarily agree with these points. I'm just trying to point out that it's not black and white.

Agreed James. I am aware that having certain key words in your grant proposal can seriously up your chances of getting a grant. Everyone plays that game, to a greater or lesser extent. I also agree that a lot of 'cancer' research has only very slight clinical benefits if any at all. I'd even go as far as saying that I think some other charities are more important in my opinion that cancer research charities. But I think criticising anyone for giving money to a charity even if it is for the feeling of self satisfaction or showing off, you are getting very close to a hypocritical stance. Indeed many charities almost rely on the guilt relieving feel good factor of giving to raise money. Some of the comments on here were rapidly approaching a 'holier than thou' point. Sorry to pick on yours. Jamie

[rodma]

Perhaps this part of the thread could be discarded rather than split, unless anyone still feels like biting or shouting or being angry

[Three Nine]

I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this. There are lowlifes, and then there are lowlifes. And then there is you. You utterly pathetic excuse for a climber. Show some respect for the work John has dedicated the rest of his time to growing. Totally selfless.

If you don't like it, just keep quiet, yeah....?

Oh and smite away, i couldn't give two shits.

I say, steady on

[Adam Lincoln]

I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this. There are lowlifes, and then there are lowlifes. And then there is you. You utterly pathetic excuse for a climber. Show some respect for the work John has dedicated the rest of his time to growing. Totally selfless.

If you don't like it, just keep quiet, yeah....?

Oh and smite away, i couldn't give two shits.

I say, steady on

Mark, you may not care what people think about you, but show some respect for what John is doing. Yeah?

[AlistairB]

At the risk of throwing another log on the pile...

I've donated to CAC via. supporting a friend's bike ride and previously supported other charities both financially and with my time. I think what John's done is great because it's raised a large amount of money; almost none of this would otherwise have been spontaneously donated imo. Like Tim says, people mainly just don't think about charity. John is managing the donations in a very sensible way to maximise impact, considering the somewhat murky actions of some high profile "charities" he can rightfully be proud of this.

Now, I'll never own a CAC t-shirt because I feel similarly to other posters about broadcasting my "good deeds" and would rather continue to support directly when I feel able. But if it is a bandwagon or whatever else you want to use to dismiss it, why does it matter? It's raised a huge amount that's going direct to a cause that touches almost all of us. I don't think it can be legitimately viewed as anything other than positive.

[Oldmanmatt]

Three Nine is, I believe, making a philosophical point.

Personally, I find life's little hillocks have ironed out my righteous zeal and dulled my appetite for philosophy.

Perhaps it would surprise many to know that I don't have a CAC shirt.

I choose to support research in my own way and, even more, "end of life" care.

However, John is worthy of respect. A great deal of respect.

I wonder though, Three Nine, if you had realised; that you too displayed the same righteousness, the same zeal (merely inverted), when you chose to voice your thoughts?

You have a valid point, to some degree...

But, I seem to recall something my Grandmother always used to say..

Something about Babies, bath water and not throwing them out together.

[lukeh]

I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this.

Though it doesn't alter the validity of your other comments, it probably should be noted that this thread was split off from Shauna's blogpile thread, not actually "started" as such.

It doesn't show that its a split thread, which in the case of this thread, is a bad thing as it makes it look like three five nine has started this off his own steam. So whilst i don't agree with him, i take back what i said about you, the thread splitting has made you look unnecessarily wanker'ish!

+1 Should be clearer that this is a split thread, as the context changes the nature dramatically in my opinion.

[Duma]

I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this.

Though it doesn't alter the validity of your other comments, it probably should be noted that this thread was split off from Shauna's blogpile thread, not actually "started" as such.

Mods, you should add something at the top of the thread to make the context of 39's remark clear, it's contentious enough as it is.

edit, luke beat me to it

[petejh]

If it's meant as a philosophical point then he's no Socrates.


You could always go around wearing a t-shirt with 'Mark Tomlinson Is Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer' written front and back - so you can really display that people shouldn't make a display. No doubt someone would want to join you on that particular bandwagon ride - perhaps they could then wear 'Joe Blogs Is For Climbers Who Are Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer'.

Might not fit on a fucking wristband though.

[namnok]

If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom  .

As i class myself as a good friend of John's (sharing rooms with him on comps and known him for 8-9yrs now), i think what john has done is great. how many of you can say on your death bed that you've left this kind of legacy?

Ok you dont like the tshirts (also available are hoodies, iron badges and potentially boxer shorts etc; visit www.climbersagainstcancer.org to get yours today!), don't slag them off, it's just not cricket.

but if you feel people wearing the same (or similar) attire for charity sickening definately don't go to any Race for Life events near you very soon.

[Fiend]

If it's meant as a philosophical point then he's no Socrates.


You could always go around wearing a t-shirt with 'Mark Tomlinson Is Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer' written front and back - so you can really display that people shouldn't make a display. No doubt someone would want to join you on that particular bandwagon ride - perhaps they could then wear 'Joe Blogs Is For Climbers Who Are Against Climbers Who Are For Climbers Against Cancer'.

Might not fit on a fucking wristband though.

Pete wins the thread 

If they start making vests I will be seriously tempted, there's some pretty strong colours there. Then again maybe I will just download the poster of the pooch and donate a bit seperately - http://www.climbersagainstcancer.org/wp-content/uploads/CAC-POSTER-1.pdf - how the hell was there any debate about her being a DFB, her eyes are lovely.

[shark]

maybe I will just download the poster of the pooch and donate a bit seperately - http://www.spermbank.org.uk/sperm-banks-in-the-uk/glasgow-sperm-bank.html

[Fiend]

Very good 

[battery]

There are many charities out there, some people will be drawn to certain causes whilst finding others totally abhorrent. I personally have issues with Help for Heroes, wrist bands, car stickers and all - but that does not mean I would go into an Army Mess and say so as I respect other people's freedom to give (or not) their money in the way they see fit.

Possibly slightly controversial on here to suggest that people have a right to choose without being abused for it but I'm an idealist and an optimist. As long as it doesn't harm you (and I can see no way in which someone wearing a t-shirt would) then show some maturity and respect for personal choice, never mind the work that the individual charities do.

[dave]

Personally I think the CAC shirts are a refreshing change. I'm sick of seeing climbers wearing pro-cancer gear, like those bloody "I love melonomas" and "leukemia rules" shirts.

[Duma]

There are many charities out there, some people will be drawn to certain causes whilst finding others totally abhorrent. I personally have issues with Help for Heroes, wrist bands, car stickers and all - but that does not mean I would go into an Army Mess and say so as I respect other people's freedom to give (or not) their money in the way they see fit.

Possibly slightly controversial on here to suggest that people have a right to choose without being abused for it but I'm an idealist and an optimist. As long as it doesn't harm you (and I can see no way in which someone wearing a t-shirt would) then show some maturity and respect for personal choice, never mind the work that the individual charities do.

Devils advocate, but re right to choose, how do you think a finalist at the bbc's who wished to donate their disposable income to a different cause would have felt at the athletes presentation? (fb pics so might not show up)

[slackline]

Devils advocate, but re right to choose, how do you think a finalist at the bbc's who wished to donate their disposable income to a different cause would have felt at the athletes presentation? (fb pics so might not show up)

Need to use the image address rather than the address (right-click "Copy Image Address" or similar) rather than  the farcebook page on which they appear.

[Lund]

I think the problem is that the CAC "brand" is getting a bit rammed down the throat of all those that consume climbing media.

* I respect Shauna et. al. for their athletic achievements, to put it mildly.

* I respect Shauna et. al. as people

* I respect John as a human being who I've never met, who I know is no saint

* I couldn't give a fuck about the CAC charity

* Having the CAC concept rammed down my throat everytime I try to read about my sport pisses me off

* The "if you're against CAC, your for cancer, and that means you're a cunt" storyline pisses me off

I'm just bored of it.  I just don't care enough to accept the saturation of my eyeballs.  I'd say I'm sorry for that opinion, but I'd be lying.  I've passed my acceptance point.

On a similar note, I recently cancelled a monthly recurring charitable donation because the fuckers rang me EVERY SINGLE DAY to try to get it increased and you can't block blocked calls on an iphone.  I also hate chuggers, even though I'm for children, for animals, against cancer, etc., I do NOT want my bank details taking on the street in my lunch ten minutes thank you fucking very fucking much you enraging cunts, and I resent the fact that I must restrain myself from beating you into a disk only a few millimeters thick on the pavement using only my bare hands and my anger because I do understand that you don't give a fuck enough either but you're being paid a pittance to mug people on the street for their bank details.

But anyway.  We all have a point where we stop caring because it's intruding on the business of not having cancer.  Either because of the eyeball saturation, or because you find the quantity of "I don't like cancer" t-shirt wearer showing off unbearable, or because you spot that it transitions into "I don't give a fuck about cancer but I do want the T-shirt that fits in", or whatever.

This is an individual point.  If you have cancer, you probably don't pass it so soon, and I have sympathy with that position.

There is absolutely no point at which it is acceptable to tell someone they are out of order, a reprobate, or anything else unfortunate just because they don't want to be advertised at quite so much.

This is a very long way of saying that oOf all the abuse that gets levelled on this form, Adam Lincoln I think yours to three nine, as much of a pecker as he can be, is the worst.

[Fiend]

* The "if you're against CAC, your for cancer, and that means you're a cunt" storyline pisses me off

Bit of an overstatement, but I'm not sure how anyone can be "against" CAC*, the whole concept is as ludicrous as the post that sparked this off. Either you support it, or you're just dis-interested - and if it's the latter, fair enough, just ignore it, and get back to the real issues like kneebars and pre-clipping bolts (not sarcasm, I'd rather discuss that myself and I don't even own a kneepad). As for it being rammed down the throat, it is pretty easy to ignore in the wider context of climbing media (which I do as I'm more interested in climbing)





*although, I suppose, if someone is genuinely "against" i.e. hostile to, disapproving of, etc a charity trying to help people who are terminally ill, then yes of course you're a cunt and you just have to accept that.

[tomtom]

I'm ambivalent to the CAC campaign - Personally I dont think its reached saturation point, but each to their own and I can see why some folk might get annoyed with it. research into Cancer is a good cause, and if people want to support it by buying a T shirt and supporting the CAC campaign fair enough - personally I donate to cancer research and am happy not having a T shirt... I prefer not to wear my donation on my sleeve so to speak.. So I dont think theres anything wrong with liking or disliking the campaign.

On a similar note, I recently cancelled a monthly recurring charitable donation because the fuckers rang me EVERY SINGLE DAY to try to get it increased and you can't block blocked calls on an iphone.  I also hate chuggers, even though I'm for children, for animals, against cancer, etc., I do NOT want my bank details taking on the street in my lunch ten minutes thank you fucking very fucking much you enraging cunts, and I resent the fact that I must restrain myself from beating you into a disk only a few millimeters thick on the pavement using only my bare hands and my anger because I do understand that you don't give a fuck enough either but you're being paid a pittance to mug people on the street for their bank details.

This I agree with (aside from the beating people into discs part ) Chuggers are a right nuisance as well as people knocking on my door who get a polite but stern rebuttal...

[Lund]

*although, I suppose, if someone is genuinely "against" i.e. hostile to, disapproving of, etc a charity trying to help people who are terminally ill, then yes of course you're a cunt and you just have to accept that.

No, I don't accept that.  The end does not justify the means.  You're being simplistic.

[Jaspersharpe]

Must admit I have a bit of a problem with statements like:

If you don’t know about CAC then I am disappointed in you! Go find out and buy yourself a t-shirt. If you do know about CAC and you don’t own a t-shirt then you should do something about that!

I realise Shauna is just being nice and supporting a cause but it helps the whole thing seem similar to the wearing of poppies. When something is made out to be more compulsory than optional then I immediately go the other way. I give money to poppy sellers but I wont wear one.

[Nibile]

I think that different subjects need different ways of expressing our thoughts.
It's a matter or respect.
There's the meaning and there's the sense. If I say that I want to vomit seeing a CAC t-shirt, the meaning is clear, but the sense is not, and it gives room to misunderstandings and general bias, which, given the delicate subject, is not a very good way to express oneself.
If one is so sure about his view - especially if unpopular - as to tell it to everyone, the less he/she could do is to be very specific and very clear; unless trolling, the more delicate is the subject, the bigger clarity effort is required.
My 2 Euros.

[Dr T]

I give money to poppy sellers but I wont wear one.

I'm with you on that one - compulsory charity in schools gets under my skin too - especially when it's made competitive (deliberately or not) does nothing to help those who have less feel they can match up against those who have more.

For what it's worth I have a CAC t-shirt but rarely wear it out, CAC is a little close to "Cack" for me...