[Three Nine]

If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom  .

[rodma]

If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom  .

That's pretty low, even by your "standards"

[Three Nine]

If people want to donate money to cancer charities that's fine, perhaps its even a good thing. Every time I see a CAC t-shirt I wanna vom  .

That's pretty low, even by your "standards"

  no doubt you've got one in every colour, so you can show how caring you are every day of the week

[rodma]

From my Karma change description

get fucked you sanctimonious little prick

I assume that you are still trolling, otherwise you really ought to speak to me in person the next time I'm unfortunate enough to be in approximately the same vicinity as you

Lots of people on here know John pretty well and have done for a large number of years, that's why i assumed that you were just trolling rather than being just plain offensive, now I'm not so sure

[Three Nine]

The smite was tit for tat; I just can't rise above it.

My post said that I think CAC is totally lame. You disagree. Ok.

[rodma]

The smite was tit for tat; I just can't rise above it.

My post said that I think CAC is totally lame. You disagree. Ok.

Your use of language is slightly more colourful than tit-for-tat, but anyway

I still think you're just trolling, this is nothing to do with a difference of opinion.

[Three Nine]

Oh well. My objection to CAC is that it serves as a vehicle for the promotion of people's self-righteousness, increasing their 'ethical capital' perhaps, in a similar way to celebrities doing charity work in a conspicuous way. The fact that it generates x amount of ££ for cancer research or whatever (which may or may not be a good use of peoples' money) doesn't make up for this in my opinion. You may feel that it does Rodma.

For what its worth, I am not alone in holding this opinion. I even received a text of general agreement from a ukb forum hero after my initial post (don't worry i shan't name names).

I hope my karma smite didn't upset you; i'm sure you'll cope with it as I did with yours.

Edit: dunno if that apostrophe is right

[rodma]

I hope my karma smite didn't upset you; i'm sure you'll cope with it as I did with yours.

I don't care about the smite, just the language

my opinions of John are exceptionally high, so I don't really mind if it allows people to feel self righteous.

[rich d]

Three Nine, reckon you've got this one wrong. I've and nearly everyone I know in real life have been affected by cancer. As you get older and have kids of your own I think mortality comes into sharper focus, but I also think my ability to empathise with other's suffering and be impressed by their subsequent bravery has increased massively. People contribute to cancer charities for all sort of reasons, I doubt self righteousness rates highly on that list of reasons (it doesn't for myself, family and friends). By all means you can have a difference of opinion on any subject, but where it is on an emotive and very personal situation that has affected and still affects a lot of us very closely the nice thing to do would be tactful in your criticism and consider the time, place and tone.  Rich

[Three Nine]

I think I made a distinction between giving to a charity and buying a t-shirt which advertises your giving. Whether or not giving to a particular charitable organization is a good thing or not is a different issue.

[rodma]

buying a t-shirt which advertises your giving shows your support to his charity

This was John's vision

I'm sure you are right that there will be a proportion of people that have done this for the reasons that you suggest, but i reckon for the most part, people have good intentions

[Three Nine]

Well there we disagree.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ah well...

The right thing for the wrong reasons?


Is, never the less, the right thing.



Time to hope you never have to walk a mile in that man's Mochasins...

[Three Nine]

We differ there also.

[masonwoods101]

I agree with old man mat. If someone buys the shirt to show off how thoughtful they are... They have still paid their money and are still good avertising for the cause...

[highrepute]

...they're still a dick though...

[masonwoods101]

Not saying they aren't... Bu as far as the charity is concerned they have paid...

[rich d]

Publicity is so obviously good for so many reasons!
Who cares if someone wants to gag when they see a tshirt being worn.

[Oldmanmatt]

Publicity is so obviously good for so many reasons!
Who cares if someone wants to gag when they see a tshirt being worn.

😄

[Richie Crouch]

Kind of agree with both sides of the debate. Seems a bit of a bandwagon but at least it is raising money for a good cause. I'd rather just donate to Marie Curie and not wear the t shirt given the choice.

[tim palmer]

Kind of agree with both sides of the debate. Seems a bit of a bandwagon but at least it is raising money for a good cause. I'd rather just donate to Marie Curie and not wear the t shirt given the choice.

But I think the point is that the vast majority of people wearing t-shirts would never donate to a charity, not out of any selfish-ness but just because it doesn't cross their minds.

The fact that it generates x amount of ££ for cancer research or whatever (which may or may not be a good use of peoples' money)

 
hmmm in what possible context is giving money to cancer research not a good use of their disposable income?

I (I imagine like alot of others) started climbing because it was rather niche and this mass t-shirt wearing is not my bag and I do not own a "CAC" t-shirt, but I think people saying "everyone who wears one is a dickhead" are frankly arseholes for a number of reasons:

1.  As previously stated by many others the majority of people are doing this out of a genuine generosity of spirit

2. to say they are just doing it out of a desire to gain the moral high ground in an effort to gain the alternative culture high ground is hypocritical in the extreme

3. The guy who started the charity obviously holds it very close to his heart and is terminally ill so to denigrate what may be his most lasting mark upon this earth for it not being in keeping with what your view of climbing culture should be seems savagely cruel.




 

[Davo]

I agree with Rich here.

Personally I would feel a bit uncomfortable about wearing a T-shirt like that. My charitable donations are my own business and I wouldn't like to broadcast them. Also the term Climbers Against Cancer straight away made me feel a bit uncomfortable and my initial reaction was: "well no one is going to be for cancer!".

Obviously attempting to increase donations to support research into cancer is good. It is just my personal opinion that I don't like the T-Shirts and the name but you can't please everyone and it is clearly a well intentioned and good idea.

Cheers Dave

[JamieG]

...they're still a dick though...

Careful here. I think if we put our hands on our hearts, everyone has done the 'right' thing for the 'wrong' reasons. Even three nine . . . . .

[highrepute]

Careful here.

Sorry i think my post was a bit of a knee-jerk because in my opinion 39 was getting in the neck because apparently t-shirts about cancer are a taboo subject.

i think Davo sums up my feelings pretty well.

hmmm in what possible context is giving money to cancer research not a good use of their disposable income?

Large charities spend lots of money on wages and administration, sometimes in ways that people don't agree with. Although, from what I can tell, John is donating directly to research labs he's selected so this isn't a risk here.
The word "cancer" goes a long way in securing grants for researchers. In my experience many grants/paper working on a cancer theme are a long way off what you'd probably recognise as cancer research (again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing).
"Leave it to charity" is the approach of government to many things, cancer research being one. Some would argue that we shouldn't need to donate so much to cancer research

I don't necessarily agree with these points. I'm just trying to point out that it's not black and white.

[Adam Lincoln]

I couldn't give a toss if you support it or not, and what you think about it, but what kind of person deems it ok to go on a forum and even start such a topic as this. There are lowlifes, and then there are lowlifes. And then there is you. You utterly pathetic excuse for a climber. Show some respect for the work John has dedicated the rest of his time to growing. Totally selfless.

If you don't like it, just keep quiet, yeah....?

Oh and smite away, i couldn't give two shits.