[clm]

Just got an email from lancashire don les ainsworth about the access situation at craig y longridge - a massively important crag for north lancs dwellers.  for those who dont know the venue it is an awesome 100 metres of quarried gritstone, leaning at a constant angle of about 30 degrees (/) and riddled with smee crimps and slopers.  people i know who have visited have broken into a run as they have arrived as they just cant believe what they are seeing.  Anyway, the guy who owns the field and adjacent caravan site is putting static caravans on the site and has banned climbing cos he is worried about liability.
Now the intersting bits...
1.  If the access situation is not resolved the crag will be bulldozed!!! :shock:  :shock:
2.  The owner wants the BMC to buy the crag and manage acces but they cant do this without loads of climbers  who give a shit pledging 100 quid each!!! :shock:  :shock:  to be paid up when the deal is sorted.

Now what do you guys think o this.  will it set a bad precedent and make loads of landownwers ban climbing unless crags are bought.
is it worth losing this one crag so the precedent is not set.
will the climbers who stump up (or the BMC) be liable or will the generous climbers have some sort of primo crag rights whatever they might be :?

[TheHippy]

I think it would not be good to set a precedent like this, but its seems more common for landowners to just say to the climbing community - sod off, I dont want the hassel!

Tis unfair but you cant blame them, its not like you can sign a consent not to sue or anything. I understand that you CANT limite anyones liability to not sue for personal injury or even death. I mean they (the landowners) dont want the possible claim coming and hittin their door mats do they?

[Bubba]

I know fuck all about access issues but surely that sort of money (which sounds like a lot if they're talking £100 contributions) could be better spent paying the landowners liability insurance or whatever. Sounds like the landowner is just trying to make some easy money out of what he sees as a bit of shitty rock.

He can't give a damn about the environment of the place anyway, or surely he wouldn't be putting in a load of hideous static caravans.

[clm]

and for you v-grading, font grading freaks messing about on stamina band and the like the girdle at craig-y was given summink ridiculous like E7 cos its so bloody long.  And thats without going more than about 10 foot up.

[Jim]

I've only been the once, but it would be a terrible loss to all climbers.
If I win the lottery on saturday, I promise to buy the crag

[Bubba]

If there's no way of limiting liability, etc, how come there is access to the majority of other crags in the country? The BMC certainly doesn't own them all, and I'm sure every one of them is on somebody's land.

[Kim]

anyone know what's the deal with liability?
can't the BMC explain they wouldn't be liable - i assume they wouldn't -
i've been looking at a bit of law this year for my course, and as far as i understand the landowner isn't criminally liable for something that happens to someone due to an activity carried out on the land (ie climbing), and basic warning signs cover hazards eg falling rocks.
dunno about being sued, but it's hardly likely is it...
what happens at other crags on private land?

dunno about the precedent thing but i'm sure the BMC's bought other crags before.

So how much does the guy want for it??

[Bubba]

They bought Horseshite quarry recently, but I think that was to stop it being filled in rather than the liability thang.

[Jim]

Thats the same thing here is it not

1. If the access situation is not resolved the crag will be bulldozed!!!

[Bubba]

oh yeah!

[clm]

i think the liability thing will be because the caravans will be immediately adjacent to the crag and he doesnt want burly types dropping on some toddlers head.
To be honest it does sound like hes trying to screw some money.  even if the bmc do buy the crag mister holiday park is gonna be unhappy.  imagine the response of the geriatric nobodies who holiday in longridge (ooooh its lovely and quiet) when dense arrives and starts announcing how big his knob is :shock: (i heard its like a third leg)

[Johnny Brown]

you 'heard' eh? I saw you when he needed a 'hand' to help put it away :shock:

I reckon the BMC should sell horseshit and buy longridge instead. Which is the more valuable resource - shit lime or grit in its rare steep form??

For the idiots amongst you the answer is - Its the grit. And I have a geology degree so you can't argue with SCIENCE

[dave]

i think the whole liability thing is just some crap that its easy for landowners to spoit when they are generally uncomfortalbe about people being on the land. we recently got kicked off a new crag, and were met with reasons as arbitrary as "...theres livestock nesting round here" (those exact words) - i mean the legendary bird-cows, and also as an afterthought "and i don't want to be sued if anyone falls off.

I think soem landowners should be made away of r the fact that as far as i know no landowner has ever be found liable for any climbing accidents.

[webbo]

what i find as strange is why anyone would want a holiday caravan in the middle of lancashire when there are lots of them avaliable on the yorkshire coast in such heavenly spots like withernsea    :D

[Bubba]

i mean the legendary bird-cows

What, you've never seen them?

[a dense loner]

nice, i've only seen wings on pigs b4, and of course birds but thats another story. in response to the jokin above about my anatomy, if it were true my first sentence would be flyin past by now.  :?

[squeek]

9K is what's needed apparently, which does seem like quite a lot, as it's not much land and it wouldn't be much use for anything else. So that's 90 donations from climbers.  

People have been climbing on it for years as well, I wonder how many problems the owner has had.

[Greg C]

CLM Wrote - "Lancashire don Les Ainsworth"  

Yeah he really is the don   (please note sarcastic tone)

From my expierience if Mr Ainsworths got anything to do with it you will probabaly lose access within the first 30 seconds of the crisis talks.  :wink:

[clm]

Bit of respect for your elders please young greg.

[Nigel]

I would prefer to respect my "elders and betters", rather than Les Ainsworth! Admittedly he is elderly.

[dobbin]

For once I agree with Johnny B - Longridge is surely a much better venue with more to offer, but, given that the BMC is run by route climbing bumblies who believe bouldering is not 'real climbing' then I would expect their purchase of Longridge is unlikely.

If we loose access to this crag it will be a disaster. I'm from that neck of the woods originally and have been going up there for donkeys, in which time I've rarely seen many people up there and never anyone causing a disturbance (except for that time interupting Adam Lincoln mid stroke), so I think you're on the money when you say that the farmer is probably on the make.

I'd pay a ton to secure access.

[Johnny Brown]

well you can't argue with SCIENCE....

to be fair to the BMC though, all the people I've met who work there have sufficient perspective to know that Longridge is a pretty unique venue, and certainly more valuable than a bolted heap in the most developed area in the UK.

[Jim]

so has anybody had any contact with the BMC and had any feedback?

[grimer]

i'm certainly denser than any loner, but from what i know about the BMC and Horseshit Quarry, they haven't bought it, rather Tarmac are giving them ownership for a nominal fee, in order to get it off their hands. If the BMC hadn't agreed to this, someone else would have taken it, and all access denied in all liklihood, so the idea that Horseshoe is getting prioritised over Longridge is wrong.

I'll try to find out what i can here about all this and let you know.

[Nigel]

On the right lines as far as I know (admittedly not far!). I believe the BMC bought Horseshit for £1, which hardly broke the bank even for them. The basic premise being to relieve the threat of liability from the previous owners.

[Johnny Brown]

so the idea that Horseshoe is getting prioritised over Longridge is wrong.

chill gwima, we weren't suggesting that. just that if they were prepared to buy horseshit then longridge should deserve at least the same treatment. However it seems they got ripped off - maybe they could bargain a little harder for longridge?? :wink:

[Scouse D]

I'm from that neck of the woods originally and have been going up there for donkeys

Most people go for the bouldering, but whatever floats your boat Dobbin. Anyway it ain't far to blackpool from there so don't despair...

[Kim]

[clm]

In the unlikely event that any of you are rich enough to pledge to save craig-y-longridge(the cragx of gritstone) then les needs to hear from you by weds 9th june. you can get hold of said undisputed don at the following email adress.

les.ainsworth@synergy-ergs.com

[Bubba]

Seriously, fuck that shit - if they wanna bulldoze the place, I suggest some of us get up there and protest  :twisted: and not pay the ransom.

[clm]

I dont think a protest would work bubba.  the landownwer has put a guy in a caravan in the field who asks climbers to leave immediately.  im sure he wouldnt hesitate to phone some burly dudes with pickax handles or some pigs to deter any protesters.

[dobbin]

Most people go for the bouldering, but whatever floats your boat Dobbin. Anyway it ain't far to blackpool from there so don't despair...

Damn you and your eagle eye! I must get an eyetest booked in, I borrowed some gigs the last time I went and it looked like those sensual beasts were actually cows! god forbid.