[tommytwotone]

Looks great Matt - good luck with it. May well be down that way over the summer visiting my Mum so will pop in and say hello.

[andy_e]

Child labour!

[crimp]

Child labour!

Child labour is wrong!

There's no need.

These days you can get disabled people to work for you for nothing. But they will earn their meagre benefit by Christ, courtesy of ian duncan smith, and atos (and their shareholders really deserve their millions of taxpayers money for traumatising the sick and disabled, and forcing them to enslavement)

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually...

The whole "bring them round after school, 'coz they can help with the painting" thing was a mistake.

Two four year olds, with paint buckets and rollers.

Arrghh!

A Seven year old, who stood in in a full roller tray, then walked allover the floor.

Arrrrrrgggghhhh!!!!

A Six year old who decided to wash his hands in the Disabled toilets, in the one sink I haven't connected the drain to yet.


Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Splash.


Scrub.

Wipe.

[theblacklens]

To be honest, are you sure you have done your homework? How many people per day are you going to need to just pay the bills?
When its sunny are people going to come inside when Dartmoor is free?
From your designs it looks quite small with lots of hardcore training?
I am not being a downer here it just that Devon really needs a dedicated TCA style wall, not like the country park wall which was a similar size (rent free) that closed down.
I would be interested to here your figures.

[theblacklens]

In order of desirability:
Aircon
Moon board
Free weights
Graded endurance circuits
Bachar ladder
Eva Lopez progression board

aircon NO, far, far more important that it is warm enough in the winter
bachar ladder NO if i wanted to train specifically for ladders and wreck my shoulders i'd go into roofing 

campus board YES
finger boards - better one decent one than five crap ones, beastmaker, moon YES
decent matting essential

Actually think that aircon is really important, certainly a dust extraction system

[Oldmanmatt]

To be honest, are you sure you have done your homework? How many people per day are you going to need to just pay the bills?
When its sunny are people going to come inside when Dartmoor is free?
From your designs it looks quite small with lots of hardcore training?
I am not being a downer here it just that Devon really needs a dedicated TCA style wall, not like the country park wall which was a similar size (rent free) that closed down.
I would be interested to here your figures.

Well,
It's bigger than it looks (The perspective on SketchUp is misleading, if you've seen the photos on Faceache, that's a 5m scaffold tower). We're about one third of TCA Glasgow and the same size as Alien 2 in Edinburgh.
The main reason, we're given to understand, that there isn't a TCA style set up here already is population density. Devon's population is just too spread out. Exeter could not (probably) support more than the Quay. Plymouth is well covered and the Barn takes up the rural/West Moor population. Dartrock is nicely central and everyone's default for wet days (and still ours for roped climbing (kids)). Rock and Rapid has North Devon covered, but North Devon might as well be another country as it's quicker to drive to Bristol.
We have (just less) as much bouldering (even at this stage, which we hope is just phase 1) as Dart and Quay combined.
Hardcore? Well, we've spent months (in my case years) discussing this with users and operators. Which bits get used, which bits don't (roofs are a big no-no apparently), islands and boulders, get the thumbs down from setters and operators (even though users think they look cool).
Our only real concession to "Training" is the campus board and the systems board (the latter might grow across the roof in phase 2, regardless of the comment above) and the rings have proved a great hit in TCA Glasgow (and take no significant room at all). The second room will be developed further (we hope) and get more steep stuff (we want to get the doors open), giving us almost 50% of  TCA G's climbable. We have chosen to integrate the cafe into the main room to ensure sociability, and because not every person who enters the building will want to climb. They may want to observe their kids etc.

The demographic here seems about right (who knows, really?). I'm not sure which Country park Blacklens is talking about (River Dart Country park? Whitehills?), but generally, after looking at the success and failure of similar ventures around the country, we think we see a correlation between rural setting and failure. Sometimes it's just too much hassle to drive. The population of Torbay and Teignbridge combined is 60% of Edinburgh (winter).
We watched with interest what happened when the Edinburgh International Climbing Arena opened.
That much (Public) money and so much space! It should have killed any business for the private venture (given that the Uni opened it's own wall at the same time-ish).
Still, Alien 1 and 2 tick along, quite nicely.
Urban setting.
(And we know our rent is half of A2).

Oh, and the fact that I'm local (I was born in Paignton) and I don't know which wall has closed and neither do most of my climbing friends, says something, no?

Like a lot of people here, I'd go to the wall more often if it was closer.

We were going to the Quay once a week and Dart Rock once a week (Fridays, because of their kid friendly policy). But it's too expensive on fuel, adds 90 min + to your trip, and therefore makes it completely impractical for an average family who want to have a bit of fun and get home in time for dinner.

We have a bus stop outside the building, we are slap bang in the centre of town (10mins walk from the harbour). Surrounded by Cafes (Torre is looking better these days). We have secure bike parking and a large carpark (P+D) across the road. One Hour (Free) spots on the doorstep (Which become free (time wise) after 6pm, and free on Sunday's).

[theblacklens]

Interesting and thoughtful response. What are your charges going to be? It would be interesting to find out as the Quay is too expensive for me. Dart Rock offers a £3.00 climb during the week and the Barn is just over £6.00 whenever you climb.

I would say that other walls in the South West are not doing as well as you think. A wall maybe busy but have large overheads and wage bills. I know that Plymouth is struggling for example.....

[ianv]

islands and boulders, get the thumbs down from setters and operators (even though users think they look cool).

I was thinking about this; surely its the customer thats important rather than the setters. Personally I cant see why setting a problem on an island would be any more difficult and it makes much better use of space and means you dont need so much matting. All assuming there is enough space to fit them in.

[andyd]

Well justified, however I'm not sure you needed to do it Matt. If Blacklens isn't a shareholder, I don't see what his beef is. It's a bit late to be of any use to anyone if it has any truth, and so just smacks of nay-saying...

[tomtom]

Well justified, however I'm not sure you needed to do it Matt. If Blacklens isn't a shareholder, I don't see what his beef is. It's a bit late to be of any use to anyone if it has any truth, and so just smacks of nay-saying...

Yup.

[Oldmanmatt]

islands and boulders, get the thumbs down from setters and operators (even though users think they look cool).

I was thinking about this; surely its the customer thats important rather than the setters. Personally I cant see why setting a problem on an island would be any more difficult and it makes much better use of space and means you dont need so much matting. All assuming there is enough space to fit them in.

Yes, the problem is "Look" cool.
Bridges have numerous safety issues (people walking under when climber above is on the other side, the swinging into other bits of wall/people etc). Islands/boulders clog up the circulation space/sight lines.
It also seems that they don't get used as much as other features. So it's less about setting routes/problems and more about utilising the space effectively.

And, I think we were aware of some of the issues at SW walls.

Pricing? Well, take a tour of wall web sites around the country, then compare to the local population size, look at typical m^2 rents (average salaries can usually be picked up from local authorities).
But generally, the prices are similar.
It's no gravy train.
It's not a way to get rich, we have other reasons to do it.
The sport needs a raised profile in the SW. We have Shawna batting in the big leagues but no-one knows her name...

[robertostallioni]

We have Shawna batting in the big leagues but no-one knows her name...

Shap oh.

[Oldmanmatt]

After a couple of weeks of ripping out old bars, counters, shelves, wiring and plumbing...

And then ripping up floor boards to put in new wiring and plumbing...

We finally began erecting the wall!

Damn! But cutting through Lathe and Plaster with a Circular saw makes some dust!


Untitled (2013-05-20 15:39:05) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

That might be Somebody's Fool on top of that scaffolding... It's hard to tell...

His first comment on arriving this morning, "Damn, it's bigger than it looked in the drawings!"

Yup! Sure is...

[Dr T]

We finally began erecting the wall!

   

[kingholmesy]

Just spotted this thread.  There's a possibility that I might be moving from Cornwall to Ivybridge in the autumn, in which case I reckon I will definitely be visiting you in preference to the other SW walls.

With this in mind please, please, please can you build a decent training board.  Something around 40 - 45 degrees overhanging and preferably set symmetrically would be great.  All wood holds a bonus.  For me this is the number one priority.

Other nice-to-haves in order of priority:

1 - well set (& reasonably regularly re-set) bouldering obviously.
2 - a slightly overhanging circuit board.  Great for endurance training and I'd be dead keen, although they don't always seem to get loads of use at other walls I've been to, so maybe not a commercial priority for you.
3 - campus board.  They take up relatively little space and are popular with wads and wannabees alike.
4 - general cafe/cake eating/chill-out area. Personally I'm not too bothered about this (I currently train in my loft after all), but getting a good ambience will go along way to making the wall popular.

Best of luck with the build!

Luke.

[Oldmanmatt]

Just spotted this thread.  There's a possibility that I might be moving from Cornwall to Ivybridge in the autumn, in which case I reckon I will definitely be visiting you in preference to the other SW walls.

With this in mind please, please, please can you build a decent training board.  Something around 40 - 45 degrees overhanging and preferably set symmetrically would be great.  All wood holds a bonus.  For me this is the number one priority.

Other nice-to-haves in order of priority:

1 - well set (& reasonably regularly re-set) bouldering obviously.
2 - a slightly overhanging circuit board.  Great for endurance training and I'd be dead keen, although they don't always seem to get loads of use at other walls I've been to, so maybe not a commercial priority for you.
3 - campus board.  They take up relatively little space and are popular with wads and wannabees alike.
4 - general cafe/cake eating/chill-out area. Personally I'm not too bothered about this (I currently train in my loft after all), but getting a good ambience will go along way to making the wall popular.

Best of luck with the build!

Luke.

All of the above... Check!

[Oldmanmatt]

Just come across a photo of the first bouldering wall I helped build back in '91 '92...

Still there and still in use!


Untitled (2013-05-30 20:01:31) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

We even made all the holds, spending our evenings high as kites on the resin fumes...

Funny, 20 odd years later and I'm still doing it...


Untitled (2013-05-30 16:07:49) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

 

[Oldmanmatt]

Untitled (2013-05-31 13:10:42) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

We finished the month of May with two of these babies!

It's like Xmas, I tell ya!

And despite doing all this:-


Untitled (2013-06-05 15:26:52) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

And this:-


Untitled (2013-06-05 15:26:05) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

Simon has also almost put Cider Soak to bed. He's hoping for a little cooler weather in the new week...



Systems board and Campus board are ready for a lick of paint and some holds/rungs (and a boxing in of the radiator after the next ply delivery on Monday).


Untitled (2013-06-05 15:30:43) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

And 'ain't it nice to open a box and find five of these darlings inside...


Untitled (2013-06-07 14:32:25) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

And, I've knackered my back...

And we're off to TCA Bristol on Monday to discuss setting strategies with Paul...

And we're still working at 11pm each night...

And actually going climbing seems like a distant memory...

But it's fun, though!

[Nibile]

 
Do you need an ageing ex-wannabe in your staff?
Good job beasts.

[Oldmanmatt]

Three weeks to opening...

We'll be announcing the date shortly.

Knackered...

All those designs stumbling into reality.

All those worries.

Like...


How do you stop bodies falling off the wall and landing in the cafe?

Build a Polycarbonate (bouncy) screen and lean it against the wall at such an angle you can't possibly hurt your self if you hit it!


Untitled (2013-06-20 15:00:23) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

What colour do we paint it?

Bright of course!


Untitled (2013-06-20 15:00:07) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

Can you make campus rungs from an old Mahogany bar, a router and hard work?

Yup!


Untitled (2013-06-14 11:36:44) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

A Bachar ladder?

Yup!


Untitled (2013-06-14 11:37:06) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

Did we really look that dumb, a quarter of a century ago, in Font?
(Me poking out from behind the Poodle cut brunette on the right)


Untitled (2013-06-08 11:01:11) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

Since Simon "Some body's Fool" W, built almost the entire wall, with the help of Chris "Animal" C, will he be the first to to try it?

You bet!


Untitled (2013-06-14 08:16:47) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

And he finished Cider Soak!

Do I have to personally test each traversing wall mat?

Of course!


Untitled (2013-06-20 15:15:28) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

Is it me or are some of these new apprentices a bit young?


Untitled (2013-06-11 13:06:50) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr


Untitled (2013-06-11 13:06:37) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

And are we hanging this by the door on Monday morning?

Too damn right we are!


Untitled (2013-06-20 15:00:49) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

And Lore?

You always get in free mate, when you coming over?

[Nibile]

Matt, my friend. I really want to come over! I would like to take a holiday and tour the walls in UK! And I'm serious! I can't do anything else but study and work every day until October at least, but a visit is always in my mind.
Beware, though, free offers are really dangerous with me! As a few UKBers and British climbers could tell you, I always accept, I bring friends, and sometimes I also keep the house keys!!!
Great post, by the way, beautiful pictures and people!

[crimp]

Hey hey. Looking great there Matt, so it is.   

i assume you're not licensed. But will you keep a not for sale sly 4 pack of cider under the counter? Just in case Adge should swing by lollygagging. Sorry i meant training.

[Oldmanmatt]

In less than two weeks, we've gone from this-


Untitled (2013-06-11 15:58:58) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

To this-


Untitled (2013-06-28 15:44:51) by oldmanmatt, on Flickr

And that's just the main room! Room two is almost finished, the cafe and reception almost done and an opening date fixed.

Wed 17th July at 4pm,we'll open the doors.

This week, Paul Twomey and the crew from TCA Bristol will be down setting (after the guys and I make a shed load of volumes over the next two days..).

They'll be setting Font style circuits, using Core's Granite, Lime and Font hold ranges, from Vb to V6+ (we hope to put up more challenging problems over time (maybe a few guest setters? Volunteers to raise the game down here?)).

Still...

More to do.

Ho Hum.

Oh yeah...

Adge, always mate.

[Duma]

Font circuits need font grades. Wtf is Vb anyway, some sort of disease? ;-)