[spidermonkey09]

I am normally a massive fan of specificity in training (crux replicas etc) but this is probably an exception for me. FOC is so measurable and easy to train that I would rather spend every possible second doing it getting as boxed as possible rather than practicing shaking out on a campus edge. If you can do 10 more moves over each set instead of shaking out, when it comes to an actual redpoint/onsight on rock shaking out will be a breeze. Presuming that is what you are training for!

[nai]

I've experimented with different length pauses. Think they all work different.
Long pauses do make it easier but perhaps build more low level endurance.  Maybe good for onsighting?

Keep grinding out the reps on a timer so you're developing a pump but not totally boxed til the last reps is somewhere on the AeroCap/Pow border.  Maybe work time determines where it actually lies

The real daddy is to go to failure every time, rest for as long as you climbed and keep repeating that til your times level off. You'll know about it after a couple of sets of that. 

Guess it depends on your goals, do you have a route or style in mind or just after general fitness

[Aussiegav]

do you have a route or style in mind or just after general fitness

No specific route. Just want to be able to do more routes either onsight or in a single session.

Also to stop being a pussy the moment I get a little bit of lactic acid and yell out take.
This is the other element of the training, to be able to build mental resilience and fight harder.

[nai]

Id' say good for genreal fitness and it certainly helps with learning to fight harder, also helps you get to grips with the discomfort that being really pumped brings.
Good luck with it.

[petejh]

Good to see this topic resurrected, as an old-school counter to the scary new ideas going on over on the RPs thread (although doing them tomorrow).

FOC is like the Carlsberg special brew of sport-climbing training imo. It simply gets you sickeningly boxed out of your tree really quickly and leaves you fucked for the next two days. It hones you to a sharp point ready to fight like a battalion of amphetamine-fuelled shock troops.
Conditioning yourself to fight the pump and cling on for dear life is what climbing at your limit o/s or r/p (or at least attempting to, before falling off, boxed) is all about for the sort of pumpy short to mid-length climbs most people do on most crags. None of that getting it totally dialled and cruising it with barely a flicker into the anaerobic zone.

The pseudo-scientists will tell you about the risks of over-development of your lactic production with concurrent underdevelopment of your aerobic and anaerobic capacities to deal with said lactic.
Ignore them, they probably have time to train 12-14 week blocks of energy system nonsense, aspire to climb further than 17 metres, and enjoy flavoured craft beers.

[dunnyg]

Inspiring! Next ukb tshirt?

[Rob F]

People have a very short memory span. What would Ned say about foot on campussing...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHgSvTYqabh/?igshid=4uw1p3onu26p

[Sasquatch]

Good to see this topic resurrected, as an old-school counter to the scary new ideas going on over on the RPs thread (although doing them tomorrow).

FOC is like the Carlsberg special brew of sport-climbing training imo. It simply gets you sickeningly boxed out of your tree really quickly and leaves you fucked for the next two days. It hones you to a sharp point ready to fight like a battalion of amphetamine-fuelled shock troops.
Conditioning yourself to fight the pump and cling on for dear life is what climbing at your limit o/s or r/p (or at least attempting to, before falling off, boxed) is all about for the sort of pumpy short to mid-length climbs most people do on most crags. None of that getting it totally dialled and cruising it with barely a flicker into the anaerobic zone.

The pseudo-scientists will tell you about the risks of over-development of your lactic production with concurrent underdevelopment of your aerobic and anaerobic capacities to deal with said lactic.
Ignore them, they probably have time to train 12-14 week blocks of energy system nonsense, aspire to climb further than 17 metres, and enjoy flavoured craft beers.

I love foot on campusing.  Best prep for hard sport i've ever done

[Aussiegav]

Yesterday was a two session day. Did max 7sec hangs in the morning then feet on Campusing in the night.
Just scratched my way through one set of 10 x 1on:2off. Usually do two sets.
I naively thought I would manage two sets after a finger board session on the same day. 

How many sessions of FOC did people do before seeing any improvements ?

[spidermonkey09]

I normally see quite rapid improvement but if that one session was significantly worse than others you've had just chalk it up to bad conditions/karma/fuelling/being tired and don't over analyse it. Might be due to being tired after max hangs too, although hard to say.

[Aussiegav]

An update: I’ve been managing 2 sets of 10 reps of 1min on/1min off. 10mins rest between sets.

 So on the weekend I tried 2mins on/ 2mins off. That was another level of difficulty and pump I’d not had before. The 2min rest did very little recovery.  It was a gradual decline from there on.

I managed only 5 reps, the best I achieved was 1min 40s.

Next time I’m moving the rest up to 3mins rest between reps and set out to do sets of 5 reps.


Definitely noticed that I can endure the discomfort a lot more now.  Just need the weather to perk up so I can try some routes. 

[mark s]

I built a board in my garage. It's got 5 metolius medium rungs on it. I've got a couple of small toe holds on the wall. Size I put a rock shoe on for. I've only just started using it. Laddering up and down, leading with each hand and doing big moves matching and reversing. I don't know what benefits I'm getting yet but it feels a lot more intensive than just hanging. 1st time on it my main finger on each hand got blisters. Tape soon fixes any issues.
My next erection is going to be big :-)
Going to do a horizontal hand and foot jam piece

[James Malloch]

Now we're speaking my language! When I did FOC, I started off with minute on, minute off x8. Ten minutes rest, then do it again until failure. As you get fitter drop it down to 1 minute on, 45 seconds rest, then 1 minute on, 30 seconds. Once you can do this easily you need to either speed up or add a bit of weight. Aim for a move a second (a metronome helps for this).

It is crushingly boring but gets you fit. Try and minimise time shaking out/chalking up.

For those of us not fit enough to do 1 on 1 off for 8 mins, would it be best to:

- extend the rest time and gradually lower it
- reduce climbing time and gradually increase it
- reduce reps and gradually increase them

Short on time at the moment. Strength feels okay still but I’d like to try and get a bit of fitness for some routes this summer. FOC seems like a good quick hit option…

[spidermonkey09]

I would start with minute on minute off and go to failure, even if that's only 4 reps. 10 mins rest, go to failure again. Build up until you can do 8 reps each time consistently then drop the rest period. Sure others would do differently. You could also use the big rungs rather than the medium ones to make it easier.

[James Malloch]

Cheers, I’ll go with that to start then. 30s on 60s off was fine for 8 reps (other than skin starting to hurt, but that’s just me being unconditioned).

I think the 1min on required more mental effort than I’m used to as well at the moment!

Hopefully if I can manage it twice a week then I won’t be completely shit if I manage to get out in the summer!

[Aussiegav]

Tape your pinky fingers!  They get battered & calluses from FOC.

[James Malloch]

Tape your pinky fingers!  They get battered & calluses from FOC.

Good tip, thanks! I’ve got a blister on one joint after yesterday- shows how little I’ve managed to climb since having a baby!

[rodma]

shows how little I’ve managed to climb since having a baby!

Your mobility might be a bit better what with all that relaxin in your system  

[MischaHY]

I'd say a move per second is bit quick really. On a route you're not likely to go below the 2 second mark IMO and when endurance training I tend to aim for around 2-4 seconds contact on each hold as a more realistic time. Seems to transfer better to actual climbing. 

[spidermonkey09]

Depends whether you think it's supposed to be directly comparable to actual climbing I guess. I've never tried to make it so, it feels to me like if you wanted to replicate climbing you'd do circuits. Doing a move a second allows you to be maximally efficient, getting as pumped as possible in as short a time as possible.

[MischaHY]

I think it's less about trying to be really close to climbing but more about a realistic contractile time. If you get really good at going for ages on 1 second moves but then spend 2-4 seconds on holds in actual routes then it's not going to transfer as well as if you got good at the slightly longer TUT. Just my 2 cents.