[Johnny Brown]

Off the top of my head JB, could not supporting the NHS bill  constitute a better option?

Sure, though I was meaning in more general terms of them forming a coalition.

[Oldmanmatt]

Off the top of my head JB, could not supporting the NHS bill  constitute a better option?

But didn't the House of Lords have the power (if not the will) to block the NHS bill?

Simple answer? No.

The H of L can only return a bill to the Commons (for amendment), and then only so many times (3?). They cannot make or quash a law.

[slackline]

The H of L can only return a bill to the Commons (for amendment), and then only so many times (3?). They cannot make or quash a law.

Fair-do's, I'm not too hot on the subtleties, but recalled at the time a campaign to drum up support in the House of Lords to have things stopped (or more likely drastically changed).

This is rather good...



Great putdown of that Baldry MP by Bercow at the end

[tomtom]

Hard to write a full reply - airports, phone etc.. But,

Of course the lib Dems have tempered the Tory govt, that is a good thing. But I think they've caved in too easily on too many things. Maybe this was in a naive belief there was some sort of quid pro quo with the nasty party... Part of the learning curve for them.

But they've still compromised nay reversed on some of the things they staunchly campaigned on in the election. So for me they're bust. They offered a fresh alternative to the two parties at the election, but went on to show they were just as capable of lying and changing direction as the others...

Lib Lab coalition for the next govt is my prediction...

Though thinking about politics makes me feel nauseous at the moment - it's been nice to be out of the country while (I suspect) the news has been full of Thatcher things and the various parties engaged in some sort of giant 'we love politics' wanking circle.

Yours sincerely, Angry from Munich Airport

[tomtom]

#Cans

[slackline]

But they've still compromised nay reversed on some of the things they staunchly campaigned on in the election.  They offered a fresh alternative to the two parties at the election, but went on to show they were just as capable of lying and changing direction as the others...

Do you think they would have had the support they needed from the tories for a referendum if they hadn't done this?

[tomtom]

That's interesting. The Torys played that one cleverly - 'condoning' rather than supporting a referendum then campaigning against it hard. Anyway, time to buckle up, switch off and take off..

[SA Chris]

Glenda Jackson launches tirade against Thatcher in tribute debate

GJ for PM!

(sorry lagers)

[crimp]

posting in the naughty thread.

[Teaboy]

It's noticeable on this, and other forums I've read, how people who were not around when Thatcher was in power judge her a lot less harshly. I guess the issue is whether you think the end justified the means. If you weren't around to witness the means then you are left just looking dispassionately at the ends. 20 - 30 years down the line a lot of those policies do not seem that bad but I maintain a deep dislike of the woman because I remember the nasty, vindictive, gleeful way her and her party went about implementing them. The end of the coal industry could have been managed better but instead she stockpiled coal and forced the miners into a corner. Scargill didn't really help himself but what he predicted all came true dispite the media portrayal of him as a raving loon. As I get older I'm becoming more right leaning but I'm sick of the revisionism that's going on, some of her policies turned out well in the end but that's only part of the story; *you* might be reaping the benefits of her policies now but a lot of people before you will have swallowed an awful lot of unpleasant medicine to enable you to get to that point.

And whilst we might all think the unions needed bringing to heel, how far away are we from the pendulum having swung too far the other way? Look at the difference in terms and conditions for employees of unionised and non-unionised industries. I work many hours above my contracted ones, I could get sacked tomorrow with nothing but a statutory minimum, I've not had a pay rise in years apart from when I moved jobs. This is all ok as I'm in a 'good' job and it's the deal I've entered into. However these same terms apply to someone working in a food processing factory on a minimum wage.

Incidentally, this forum is setting a very high bar if the sort of debate I've read on this thread is worthy of the log pile. Perhaps I should check out some of the other threads,they must be really good.....

[Johnny Brown]

Frank Turner -03- Thatcher Fucked The Kids

Oof, I bet Frank had a real hard time of it with Thatcher, what with having an investment banker for a Dad and going to Eton.

[Somebody's Fool]

How do you know all this? Did he holiday in Abersoch too?

[Johnny Brown]

Sadly not. I got quite into his stuff last year and read his Wikipedia entry; it really is that simple. From his website:

Why don’t you play “Thatcher Fucked The Kids” any more?
I got bored of the song, and more specifically, I got bored of the tedious political associations that came with it. I won’t be playing it again. Sorry. Feel free to reclaim it yourself.

What are your politics? Are you a protest singer?
Nope, no protest singing from here. I suppose I could be called a libertarian, though I prefer “classical liberal” as a label, if I have to have one. I am not a socialist. More pointedly, I’m not an activist, not trying to promulgate a message or change anyone’s mind. I prefer to leave that stuff at the door these days. Politics is divisive, by definition; I try to make music that is inclusive.[\quote]

[slackline]

I don't think this is logpile material.  Thatcher is the person who had the single biggest influence on UK climbing in the last 50 years in my view.

Playing the System by Paul Pritchard (October 2010)

[Falling Down]

How do you know all this? Did he holiday in Abersoch too?

 

[mrjonathanr]

*you* might be reaping the benefits of her policies now

Yes, I'm thriving on the consequences of unrestrained market forces producing the most buoyant economy we've ever enjoyed. 

I doubt there's many who post/read here who have the sort of income which would qualify them as unambiguous beneficiaries of these policies, with the exception of anyone who bought a council home, that's a clear winner for the buyer if not society as a whole.

[Jaspersharpe]

Incidentally, this forum is setting a very high bar if the sort of debate I've read on this thread is worthy of the log pile. Perhaps I should check out some of the other threads,they must be really good.....

 

[slackline]

Margaret Thatcher is dead. But someone has reinvented her life  by Stewart Lee

[dave]

Margaret Thatcher is dead. But someone has reinvented her life  by Stewart Lee

Genius as always.

[miso soup]

"Just watched Return Of The Jedi. Disgusted by the distasteful scenes at the end where everyone is celebrating the death of Emperor Palpatine. He may have been divisive, but he was strong and he made decisions and stuck to them, and I think he should get a bit of respect. He was, after all, a little old man who died, when you remove any other context whatsoever." - Joe Hillstrom

[mrjonathanr]

It's the economy, stupid.

[crimp]

"Just watched Return Of The Jedi. Disgusted by the distasteful scenes at the end where everyone is celebrating the death of Emperor Palpatine. He may have been divisive, but he was strong and he made decisions and stuck to them, and I think he should get a bit of respect. He was, after all, a little old man who died, when you remove any other context whatsoever." - Joe Hillstrom

spot on.

[Oldmanmatt]

It's the economy, stupid.

Very interesting.

Bit more thinking and reading for me then, since I thought something completely different.

[slackline]

Not mentioned much elsewhere

[tomtom]

Not mentioned much elsewhere

Has support of Apartheid been mentioned?