[Jaspersharpe]

I abstain nowadays. Sad really.

Terribly sad as if you look at the ridiculously low turnout these days then if all the disenfranchised voted (and not for Tory or Labour) they could actually make a real difference (despite our fucked up voting system).

[rginns]

Vote green!

[johnx2]

thread title's fine - clear ref to something she said when a ship was sunk (not that I'd've wanted the Falklands to have had a different outcome, albeit that might've spared us the worst years of the ucking 80s).

A writer to the guardian said:

"Friend of Pinochet; enemy of Mandela"

Pretty much covers it really.

I was in Sheff during the miners' srike (which had Derbyshire been balloted might have had a different outcome) and in Westminster when she was bundled out of office for being an electoral liability and mad. I didn't celebrate then, as the Tories were still in power and this was an attempt to consolidate. And I'm not celebrating now. Same reason.

[Johnny Brown]

Vote green!

That's what I always have done. (Though not for any loony-left associations the modern party is often accused of harbouring). Abstention is the only way you can truly waste your vote, and I find the apathy of the major parties toward green issues staggering.

What about those crowing over Maggie's death at the start of the thread?

[Johnny Brown]

I abstain nowadays. Sad really.

Terribly sad as if you look at the ridiculously low turnout these days then if all the disenfranchised voted (and not for Tory or Labour) they could actually make a real difference (despite our fucked up voting system).

+1.

even the liberals have irrevocably damaged their standing as the protest vote - they've done more to keep themselves out of power than any political party has in the last 50 years,

This is a real shame I think - and entirely undeserved. They at least had the balls to get involved and at least try to moderate what might be the most right-wing government we've ever had. The fact we have a functioning current coalition is for me the only positive step politics has taken in my lifetime. Rather than what the Maggie-haters would no doubt wanted - forced a re-election which (IMHO) would only have given the Tories a proper majority. I've met Clegg, wasn't impressed with him, and didn't vote for him, but in our post-industrial society I think their core values are closest to most of us. Blaming them for the actions of the current government is the reaction of a retard as far as I'm concerned.

[dave]

Or the reaction of those brainwashed by the Tory supporting media. Would people really have preferred a coalition between the Tories and Sinn Fein? Cos that's what we would have had.

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

There's no other dedicated thread to comment on this, so to logpile it seems silly.

Why not un-logpile it and change the title?

Don't you fucking dare!

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Somewhere in this thread, and I don't know who or where, suggested the "Rejoice!" comment was about the then Prime Ministers alleged comment after a warship had been sunk.

The then Prime Minister made the "Rejoice" comment after South Georgia had been liberated from the jackboot of Fascist tyranny*



* I'm not joking about that bit - the Argentine junta were criminals - there can be no legitimate claim to these islands from anyone else but the United Kingdom or Germany - who were ejected  by Force Majeure (sp?)

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

And I re-iterate once again, at the time I started this thread, all I was doing was expressing my own joie de vivre, and, by extension, inviting all and sundry to join in my own personal happiness.

Any connection anyone may have made with news events is purely coincidental.

(I may have made other comments, via other social media fora that may have conveyed a different interpretation,but they would have reflected my opinions and mindset at the time I made those comments, and only at the time I made those comments.*)


(* I haven't changed my mind since then though)

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Why are so many people so happy at her demise?

From a distance it looks remarkably like the inverse of the hysteria over Princess Diane's death. Diane: pretty opinion-free simpering charming aristo. Thatcher: ugly uncomfortably-brainy spoke-her-mind lower-middle-class battleaxe. This article in Slate comes close to nailing it IMO.

It's the complete and utter callous disregard she showed for the people crushed under the wheels of her monetarist engine, that she made no attempt whatsoever to visit anyone adversely affected by her policies, that she turned her back on anyone disenfranchised by her "grand vision", and she showed not a single ounce of simple human compassion for anyone reduced to penury and destitution by actions she personally undertook over which they themselves had no control.


And for that, if she does subscribe to Christian beliefs, I hope the bitch burns in the fires of Hell, and I for one celebrate the fact that she is dead.

[mrjonathanr]

Why are so many people so happy at her demise?

From a distance it looks remarkably like the inverse of the hysteria over Princess Diane's death. Diane: pretty opinion-free simpering charming aristo. Thatcher: ugly uncomfortably-brainy spoke-her-mind lower-middle-class battleaxe. This article in Slate comes close to nailing it IMO.

I agree with you about some public reaction. Waggons are being jumped on with great vigour, both left and right.

The article doesn't go beyond insinuating people's resentment is stoked by sexism and snobbery. In some cases that will be true, particularly Westminster.  It's a canard though, to suggest the antipathy of many was born of silly and shallow motives. There are plenty of reasons of substance.

[tomtom]

I'm so glad I've been out of the UK since Tuesday and missed most of the media wank fest about this story. It's interesting to catch up via UKB...

[Oldmanmatt]

I keep wanting to say something.

But really, there was good and bad.

And, in the end, Foxy summed up my feelings better than I could.

http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2013/04/emergency-n-requiring-immediate-action.html

I'm voting for Largers.

After all, can't be worse than the current clowns...

[slackline]

I abstain nowadays. Sad really.

Terribly sad as if you look at the ridiculously low turnout these days then if all the disenfranchised voted (and not for Tory or Labour) they could actually make a real difference (despite our fucked up voting system).

+1.

even the liberals have irrevocably damaged their standing as the protest vote - they've done more to keep themselves out of power than any political party has in the last 50 years,

This is a real shame I think - and entirely undeserved. They at least had the balls to get involved and at least try to moderate what might be the most right-wing government we've ever had. The fact we have a functioning current coalition is for me the only positive step politics has taken in my lifetime. Rather than what the Maggie-haters would no doubt wanted - forced a re-election which (IMHO) would only have given the Tories a proper majority. I've met Clegg, wasn't impressed with him, and didn't vote for him, but in our post-industrial society I think their core values are closest to most of us. Blaming them for the actions of the current government is the reaction of a retard as far as I'm concerned.

Going a bit  but just read an interesting article on voter choice.

Summary in Nature

Original Article on PLoS One Hall L, Strandberg T, Pärnamets P, Lind A, Tärning B, et al. (2013) How the Polls Can Be Both Spot On and Dead Wrong: Using Choice Blindness to Shift Political Attitudes and Voter Intentions. PLoS ONE 8(4): e60554. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0060554

Abstract
Political candidates often believe they must focus their campaign efforts on a small number of swing voters open for ideological change. Based on the wisdom of opinion polls, this might seem like a good idea. But do most voters really hold their political attitudes so firmly that they are unreceptive to persuasion? We tested this premise during the most recent general election in Sweden, in which a left- and a right-wing coalition were locked in a close race. We asked our participants to state their voter intention, and presented them with a political survey of wedge issues between the two coalitions. Using a sleight-of-hand we then altered their replies to place them in the opposite political camp, and invited them to reason about their attitudes on the manipulated issues. Finally, we summarized their survey score, and asked for their voter intention again. The results showed that no more than 22% of the manipulated replies were detected, and that a full 92% of the participants accepted and endorsed our altered political survey score. Furthermore, the final voter intention question indicated that as many as 48% (±9.2%) were willing to consider a left-right coalition shift. This can be contrasted with the established polls tracking the Swedish election, which registered maximally 10% voters open for a swing. Our results indicate that political attitudes and partisan divisions can be far more flexible than what is assumed by the polls, and that people can reason about the factual issues of the campaign with considerable openness to change.

Whether the same is true in the UK as Sweden is another matter though.

[Jaspersharpe]

This is a real shame I think - and entirely undeserved. They at least had the balls to get involved and at least try to moderate what might be the most right-wing government we've ever had. The fact we have a functioning current coalition is for me the only positive step politics has taken in my lifetime. Rather than what the Maggie-haters would no doubt wanted - forced a re-election which (IMHO) would only have given the Tories a proper majority. I've met Clegg, wasn't impressed with him, and didn't vote for him, but in our post-industrial society I think their core values are closest to most of us. Blaming them for the actions of the current government is the reaction of a retard as far as I'm concerned.

I wrote almost exactly the same thing yesterday and then deleted it as I get so depressed arguing the same point with otherwise intelligent, left wing types who have swallowed the lies hook line and sinker. Absolutely spot on JB.

[Jaspersharpe]

Whether the same is true in the UK as Sweden is another matter though.

In my experience Sweden has fewer retards.

[slackline]

Absolutely spot on JB.

 

Lib Dems took a risk to get a referendum on alternative voting.  If that had swung in favour of "Yes" (and I dearly wish it had) then it would have changed political playing field completely (and for the better IMO).

[tomtom]

This is a real shame I think - and entirely undeserved. They at least had the balls to get involved and at least try to moderate what might be the most right-wing government we've ever had. The fact we have a functioning current coalition is for me the only positive step politics has taken in my lifetime. Rather than what the Maggie-haters would no doubt wanted - forced a re-election which (IMHO) would only have given the Tories a proper majority. I've met Clegg, wasn't impressed with him, and didn't vote for him, but in our post-industrial society I think their core values are closest to most of us. Blaming them for the actions of the current government is the reaction of a retard as far as I'm concerned.

I wrote almost exactly the same thing yesterday and then deleted it as I get so depressed arguing the same point with otherwise intelligent, left wing types who have swallowed the lies hook line and sinker. Absolutely spot on JB.

I think they've sold out and have very little credibility in my book. Part of this is probably muddled up in working out how to compromise with the Tory's and they've probably been taken advantage of to a degree to start with - a naivety if you like. Their standing on policies - and how they now stand up to the Tories is now much better IMHO -

But Clegg lost all of his credibility with me over how he handled himself with the tuition fees.

Blaming them for the actions of the current government is the reaction of a retard as far as I'm concerned.

First, retard is a bad word to use here or anywhere. Second - they are the present government. So saying they are not to blame is incorrect. They have voted with the Torys on the largest phase of privatisation of core govt services  (largely by stealth) that has happened since the 1980's - schools, health, prisons, probation and more... I dread to think how we will look back on this period of government.

[slackline]

I dread to think how we will look back on this period of government.

The same as every other....fucking shit?

[andy_e]

Anybody find it disturbing when Cameron praised Attlee for setting up the NHS in his speech?

[Jaspersharpe]

I think they've sold out and have very little credibility in my book.

FFS tomtom. If only politics were so basic. Have you any idea how fucked up things would be without the Lib Dems tempering the actions of the nasty party? The Tories themselves have admitted as much! Yours is the simplistic knee jerk reaction that most "staunch Labour" have taken such delight in making since the election. Never mind the facts, we've a scapegoat to kick. It's as bad as a Daily Mail headline or in fact worse as it comes from generally sensible left wingers, I despair.

And if you're going to start going on about how parties are whipped to vote a certain way and generally do so then how about this?

http://labourlist.org/2013/03/labours-perverse-inconsistency-on-the-work-programme/ etc etc etc etc

It's politics, it's a lot of bullshit, positioning, bargaining and if you're lucky (and that way inclined) managing occasionally to stand up for what you think is right. As slackers point shows, a lot of what the Lib Dems have attempted to stand up for is at least right. They were shafted by the Tories on that one and have been shafted by them at every opportunity. That was always going to happen but as dave said earlier, what was the other option?

[Johnny Brown]

What Jasper said. 'They've sold out' is a ridiculous conclusion to make unless you can offer a better option they could have taken? Personally the 10K personal allowance will make a bigger difference to me than most tax tweaks.

Fair point about retard though.

[mrjonathanr]

Off the top of my head JB, could not supporting the NHS bill  constitute a better option?

[cheque]

There's no other dedicated thread to comment on this, so to logpile it seems silly.

Why not un-logpile it and change the title?

"Pretty much exclusively for Maggie?" 

[slackline]

Off the top of my head JB, could not supporting the NHS bill  constitute a better option?

But didn't the House of Lords have the power (if not the will) to block the NHS bill?