[Will Hunt]

BTW Will - if you want to buy a car before December (or quite possibly later now..) car showrooms will have to close as of Thursday. #lockdown2.0

We basically ended up buying the first Ford Focus that we clapped eyes on. The plan had been a recce to settle on a model. The thing we looked at was fine and at the right price for our budget. We were ready to put a deposit down and go home to look for more competitive deals when it was announced that there was going to be an announcement. The whole place became a hive of activity with them calling in everybody who was due to collect a car in the next few days. We explained that we were happy to buy (there was quite a bit of pressure to get the part ex through as they'd quoted us a very good price for the old car and its MOT is due at end of November and it'll cost a fortune) but that we hadn't sorted insurance. They threw that in for free and also that daft protective coating that they try and sell you as the stock of it they had open wouldn't keep and not using it would mean disposal at cost.

[Bradders]

Strange to hear the Octavia is more practical than an A6, I wonder if any of those features carry over to the Superb?

See far fewer of those though, Superb rare in these toddler heartlands of north london, compared to Octavia, A6, 5 series, xc90s, etc.

I have a 4yr old Superb and it is, well, Superb. The boot is the biggest you can get in an estate and fits four medium pads with the seats still up. Best I've managed is 2 big pads, 4 medium pads, 3 people and luggage for a week in Font.

Plus it comes with all sorts of thinks like a removable boot floor, dividers to stop things rolling around, little hooks to hang your shopping on to stop it flying all over the place, etc. Think they're all standard too.

It's decent enough to drive, not going to blow anyone away but get on a motorway, stick on cruise control and a podcast and just wake up when you get there; never had a car so easy and relaxing to drive long distances. Does okay on country roads too.

Biggest selling point though was that it's about £20k cheaper than all the equivalent size and spec things from BMW, Audi, Merc, Volvo, etc., and really no lesser car.

I sometimes think car boot capacity is always volumeneeded-1 - if there’s room you’ll fill it!

Amazing to think I’ve been on bouldering trips with 3 adults and a dog in a 106 but now I ‘need’ as large a family estate as we can get. 

Haha over summer I arrived at a crag parking spot and there were 3 young lads just leaving in the world's most beat up 106, whilst I'm on my tod in my massive estate 

[James Malloch]

Have a few questions on behalf of my Dad.

He's got a Vauxhall Astra 1.4 turbo 16V 150 SRI 5dr - registered Nov 2017.

He bought the car from a main Vauxhall Dealer in Jan 2019 with just under 13k on the clock, and he's done 5k miles in the last 22 months.

He's having problems with the engine warning light which you're not suppose to drive with it on according to the manual. There's been 6 times it's come on, each time having to go back to the dealer whilst, luckily, under warranty.

1) Engine power reduced light came on the day after he bought it - dealer changed some engine exhaust cam sensors.
2) Happened again whilst driving home - dealer replaced more exhaust cam sensors.
3) Happened again a month later - dealer changed exhaust cam sensors again
4) Happened again - Dealer changed exhaust cam shaft and mechanical actuator/pulley
5) Okay for a few months - went again at start of lockdown - had courtesy car for 6-7 weeks. Dealer changed full engine harness cabling/wiring
6) Gone again this week - dealer is replacing timing chain / pulleys (estimated as a big 8hr job).

Luckily, all of this was done under warranty, which ends tomorrow.

He's trying to work out how to go forward given it's been plagued with the issue since buying it. He is going to get the extended warranty from them but isn't sure if there's anything he can do under the sale of goods act etc, of how liable they would be if it went again when he get's it back.

He's retired and whilst affordable, it was a fairly big investment for him to upgrade from his previous Astra (which only had 25k miles itself and never had a problem). Just one of those things which will eat at him until he knows what could be done.

Given it's had 4 different things changed and it keeps happening, it feels to me that either they keep diagnosing the wrong thing and the problem was never fixed. or the car is a piece of shit and everything is failing on it and they all happen to impact the engine warning light.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[tomtom]

Sounds like its gone from knowing what’s wrong and changing/fixing that to:
Not knowing what’s wrong and changing lots of things until something fixes it...

I’d suggest first a good look an even a post on Vauxhall forums about this... it may be a known problem with an easy - or not easy fix. either way you know more.

If this doesnt yield any changes - I think it might be worth a frank conversation with the dealer - and possibly Vauxhall UK about swapping it out for a different car. This may mean he loses out financially - a bit - depending how generous they are - but at least he doesnt have to go through all the faff. This will after all be costing Vauxhall and/or their dealer a chunk of time and money etc...

If conversations with the dealer/Vauxhall don’t lead to much maybe get i touch with the guardian money column - they had a feature last week about Passat GTE’s going badly wrong just out of warranty....

[andy_e]

This sounds very similar to what happened when my ECR valve went...

[tommytwotone]

Seems like a "bad smell" to me - as Tom said, a) sounds like this is a scattergun approach to fault-finding and b) your old man might be best rid of it. Every brand makes a few "Friday afternoon" cars, it's just bad luck if you get stuck with one.

[Nigel]

Sounds like its gone from knowing what’s wrong and changing/fixing that to:
Not knowing what’s wrong and changing lots of things until something fixes it...

Respectfully disagree with that first part. Looking at the history:

1) Engine power reduced light came on the day after he bought it - dealer changed some engine exhaust cam sensors.
2) Happened again whilst driving home - dealer replaced more exhaust cam sensors.
3) Happened again a month later - dealer changed exhaust cam sensors again
4) Happened again - Dealer changed exhaust cam shaft and mechanical actuator/pulley
5) Okay for a few months - went again at start of lockdown - had courtesy car for 6-7 weeks. Dealer changed full engine harness cabling/wiring
6) Gone again this week - dealer is replacing timing chain / pulleys (estimated as a big 8hr job).

Points 1 to 3 indicate a very obvious conclusion - the camshaft position sensor itself was not at fault.

What has *probably* happened here is that they have put the diagnostic tool on the car and it has thrown up a code which mentions "camshaft position sensor". Quite reasonably they have replaced it on occasion 1 to see what happened. Being a dealer they have hopefully used a genuine Vauxhall part. If the sensor itself was faulty this would have fixed the problem. The fact it came on again driving home from that fix should have indicated to them that this needed further investigation. The only justification for replacing the sensor a second time is if they used a dodgy knock off non-OEM part to begin with. If they used genuine they should have tested the sensor against their specs to make sure it was good and then checked all the wiring for the sensor then. This is probably where the fault was given the age and mileage of the car.

I can't see any justification for replacing a third time as they are as good as saying that Vauxhall sensors are only good for a month - this is not true! At this point all we know is that it probably isn't the CPS unit at fault. It could be upstream (CPS wiring / ECU) or downstream (i.e. CPS & ECU are correct and something is indeed causing faulty timing).

The 4th visit to replace the camshaft (i.e. garage assume issue is downstream) - there is no way a camshaft is worn after 18K miles under normal conditions. However this may well have been needed if the camshaft had become worn by the engine being driven with incorrect timing. The fact is though a worn camshaft is almost certainly not the root problem, if it needed doing its a symptom. Either way the garage have inferred this as camshaft doesn't "speak" to the ECU so won't throw up its own code, the sensor does, so fault code probably still the same. Will it fix it - unlikely. Root problem - unknown.

Lo and behold the problem returns, 5th visit they change the entire engine wiring loom (i.e. garage have switched to upstream, should have been checked much earlier). Reason - its a dealership so they probably have them in stock, and in actual fact its much easier than pinpointing any faulty electrics / doing proper diagnostics, which is something they clearly don't do! Root problem - unknown (although probably this).

6th visit - timing chain and pulleys. Timing chains are good for 120K+ miles if correctly adjusted. Has it been changed previously? Could be a cause if so and badly installed, could just be a symptom if timing was thrown out by faulty CPS data. I guess we'll see what happens (hopefully it fixes it!). Root problem - unknown.

Overall, the issue is that no-one seems to know what the root problem is, including the dealership. Given the history I wouldn't put much store in their ability to figure it out. They have put the diagnostic tool on, read some words, and replaced that. Didn't work, guesswork begins. Under warranty then fine (apart from inconvenience). At your own cost - no way. It would be interesting to know what codes they were seeing, and whether they have changed over time or its the same one throughout. If extra ones have appeared its likely they are spin offs from the original problem not being sorted.

What to do - drive the car for a bit! With any luck the original problem was faulty CPS wiring which is now fixed by the new loom. The timing chain issue (if it exists!) is hopefully a "hangover" from driving 5K with incorrect timing and will put everything back to rights. In other words hopefully they have got there in the end! Either way I would ask to see the definitive evidence that the timing chain / pulleys were knackered and causing problems. If they aren't then is it a fix? No, and I would start to worry about it being a money pit...

If it happens again after the warranty has finished, then go elsewhere for a proper diagnosis. But I would go and ask the dealership first to provide you with the history of the codes they've read on each occasion, and tell them that unless they can tell you exactly what the actual problem is and guarantee a fix at a very reduced rate then you will take it elsewhere. They may feel like being helpful! Or ask them for a PX on it to see how keen they are, that way you'll get their genuine assessment of the car!

[tomtom]

Sounds like its gone from knowing what’s wrong and changing/fixing that to:
Not knowing what’s wrong and changing lots of things until something fixes it...

I think we’re on the same page Nigel! I probably should have said “thought they know what the problem is for the first part” as in it threw a code and they tried to fix the source of that...

Changing the loom sounds like a real shot in the dark. Like you said why not get a proper auto electrician in to check it rather than just change the lot (which is not an insignificant job.. having reshelled a old simple car before I’d personally never want to change a loom again!! 😂)

Changing the camshaft is a weird one - unless as you said they’d found excess wear/ a fault with it.

Anyway good luck James!

[tommytwotone]

Good post Nigel.


Only other thing I'd add is code readers are pretty cheap / easy to come by - might be worth an investment of £25 or whatever.


On a totally different note, wanted to highlight the recent Johnny Smith videos with Chris Harris. Always like Chris Harris' YouTube stuff, and was really chuffed he got put on Top Gear. Hadn't realised the toll it had taken on him mentally with all the abuse idiots were giving him.


He also has a pretty decent car collection.


I personally respect anyone who realises how ludicrously priced an RS6 Avant is brand new, and decides that suitable alternative family car is a 1990s N-Plate 5 Series Tourer with an M5 grafted into it!


Part 1:





Part 2:







 

[James Malloch]

Really useful replies, many thanks for all the input. I've sent them on and hopefully he finds some of it helpful in getting towards some kind of outcome with the dealer.

It's not a car that he trusts now (he's considered hiring a car for some longer journeys recently) so any information he can use to get a good outcome is great.

Thanks!!

[tomtom]

Yeah - the trust issue is a real one - and why I’d be inclined to move the car on. Always listening for a funny noise or wondering if that was the warning light flickering on etc...

[Nigel]

I think we’re on the same page Nigel! I probably should have said “thought they know what the problem is for the first part” as in it threw a code and they tried to fix the source of that...

Apologies, dived in and misinterpreted! You're right of course, no doubt that is what happened.

Changing the loom sounds like a real shot in the dark. Like you said why not get a proper auto electrician in to check it rather than just change the lot (which is not an insignificant job.. having reshelled a old simple car before I’d personally never want to change a loom again!! 😂)

Changing the camshaft is a weird one - unless as you said they’d found excess wear/ a fault with it.

Anyway good luck James!

Changing the loom is a shot in the dark as you say! But if the problem was electrical e.g. a shorted wire it should hopefully work. However they should have diagnosed the issue properly as you say.

(For James for more info....)The problem with doing it their way, instead of diagnosing the true issue in isolation, is twofold - 1) on a fundamental level you can't be sure what the problem was, so are none the wiser if it happens again. If a wire has been shorted because its badly routed, or there is a design flaw whereby they run over a sharp edge, and this happens again, back to square one! Or it could just be as simple as a single bad connection. 2) It is a very expensive and long-winded way to do it! As Tomtom rightly says it is actually a nightmare to do. The reason I said it was "easier" is that "technically" it is - you could give an apprentice the loom and tell them to just match up the coloured wires on the new one to the old one and swap it in one connector at a time. Anyone who isn't colour blind can do that, given enough time. Apparently it took them 6 weeks, so I would guess this is possibly what happened! Poor them. If your dad had paid for this, the cost doesn't bear thinking about.

I do feel for garages somewhat because engines are a bit "black box" now they are computer controlled. Usually it is faulty sensors which cause check engine lights. However if a simple sensor swap doesn't fix things then you have to be methodical and logical, in that instance the codes can be more of a hindrance than a help as they can lead you up the garden path...

That said I would echo TTT in that getting a cheap code reader is a good idea if you want to avoid being totally in the dark and at the mercy of garages! Mine was £20 and paid for itself immediately - I had a persistent "check engine" light which had been turned off a couple of times by my friendly garage over the road. Both times he said the fault indicated an exhaust gas sensor fault, or a blocked cat, neither of which were worth the expense of doing on a £500 Yaris. The code reader said it was "lean condition fault" (i.e. too much unmetered air or too little fuel). 5 minutes and 6 inches of duct tape on a cracked air box later, the problem is fixed. James your situation is different but at least if your Dad has one then if the light comes on he can find out what the codes are and google them. If it is still the same as before (if he can find this out) then at least he'll have a starting point to discuss with any garage. And there will be info on the Vauxhall owner's forums that will help. This may be a common issue? You don't want to flying blind into any future fix as if people are already randomly opening up the engine / replacing looms you are looking at big money if you're not under warranty. You want to have some faith it will work when its coming out of your own pocket! But, hopefully it is now fixed and the saga is over...

[James Malloch]

Thanks again, Nigel. Really useful information again. I'll suggest getting a reader and checking forums/speaking with a local garage.

The 6 week time (for the new loom) was more due to the lockdown I think. I believe they essentially downed tools during this time. Luckily he managed to convince them to stay open late and give him a courtesy car the evening before the lockdown so he could still get to the shops!

The staff have been great there, just the actual fixing of the problem has been the issue. Makes it much nicer when dealing with them though.

[Nigel]

The staff have been great there, just the actual fixing of the problem has been the issue. Makes it much nicer when dealing with them though.

That's good, if they seem nice then knowing the whole saga they may be happy to accomodate your dad on decent terms if it happens again, especially if he bought it from them originally. Or if not then maybe speak directly to any future garage to help them resolve this. Best of luck.

[James Malloch]

Is there anything a main dealer would do in a service that an independent garage might not?

I always got my Berlingo done at the Citroen Garage where I bought it. It was local and easy so I never looked into other garages really.

Now I've moved away and the local garage (one I used a lot in the past but mainly for MOTs) is way more convenient. It's reached 100k so I think a bigger than normal service is needed?

I think that the main dealer said they flushed something out that they said got rid of 100% of some kind of build up. God knows what it was or if it's standard.

Anyway, I guess other than having official parts, is there any benefit to going with a main dealer? I'm not bothered about re-sale value as it won't be much.

[SA Chris]

No. Unless it's needed to maintain warranty, I wouldn't bother. The "added value" of it always being services by a dealer will not move the resale value much.

My experience of dealers is they will always try and do unneeded things too.

Not sure about the flushing, could be cooling system, could be hydraulic system, could be fuel, none of them are complicated. If fuel, my local garage recommended every 4th or 5th tank of fuel be some of the "posh"  stuff with cleaning additives, rather than just filling up with supermarket fuel every time.

[tomtom]

I’ve always used a good Indy garage. Labour charges are typically 50-60% that of a main dealer.

[SA Chris]

Plus buy local, don't feed the corporate machine! (any more than you have to)

[James Malloch]

Cheers - I'll go with local then.
Because of the boat we moved around a lot so I always used this local one for MOT's as we were in Skipton in Summer (MOT due) and main dealer in Leeds in Winter (service due).

Will move both to the local now then.

[Paul B]

I know a few members on here have had (or do have) BMW 135i/140i.

I've been offered first refusal on one ('16 plate) owned by an ex (senior) colleague. I can't see that I'd find a better example but it's looking unlikely I'm going to go for it. If anyone is interested drop me a message as it looks as if he's going to use an online car buyer (although not westealyourcar.com).

It'll be in Halifax.

[James Malloch]

Do insurance providers vary much / is it generally best to avoid those you've not heard of much?

I know they're all regulated but I assume after-sales etc varies considerably.

Currently we admiral and their renewal is £495, but I can get much better quotes elsewhere.

Aviva is the cheapest at £300 (I think they are a pretty big provider).

Next that I've heard of are:

Sheila's Wheels: £355
Hastings: £390
AxA: £390
Lloyds: £410

I've dealt with Lloyds in the past so would be happy to go with them, but going cheaper means more board holds...
Any reason to avoid those cheaper ones? All seem like bigger providers so hopefully would be okay in the event of an accident?

[RobK]

Ring Admiral up, tell them your cheapest quote, they'll match it or get pretty close. The fact that I have to do this every year is bloody annoying though.

[Paul B]

Sheila's Wheels: £355

We've been with SW up until recently (turns out they don't like Burnley postcodes  ); they were good to deal with.

I know a few members on here have had (or do have) BMW 135i/140i.

I've been offered first refusal on one ('16 plate) owned by an ex (senior) colleague.

BTW this went to a car buyer for £12k with 32k miles on the clock. I can't imagine there was a better example going. This was a recent benchmark:
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2017-bmw-m140i-shadow-edition

[moose]

Aviva is the cheapest at £300 (I think they are a pretty big provider).

Next that I've heard of are:

Sheila's Wheels: £355

Aviva used to be Norwich Union - a major home and business Insurer.

Sheila's Wheels are part of Esure, so again, hardly an unknown.

Axa are another biggie.

That said, the quality of service is often little to do with the size of the insurer, which at least with domestic claims can be more to do with the individual loss adjuster handling the claim.

[James Malloch]

Thanks for the replies - I’ll do a little research on service tomorrow and go with one of the cheaper ones. Admiral weren’t interested in dropping the price last year (don’t know why I chose to renew really) but I’ll try asking them again tomorrow