[Bonjoy]

I don't wish to reignite this tired old debate, which has no doubted been done to death elsewhere. Just wondered what the result of a poll would be.
 It's all sort of in the past now, and it's unlikely the facts will ever be proved one way or the other. But i'm interested to know what impression people are left with.
 Will history remember Dunne as a visionary or a liar? What is your stance regarding the veracity of his claims?
 Are you a believer or a nay-sayer?

[Doylo]

Its tricky one, i totally believe he was awesome when he was younger and did stuff like Partheon and New Statesman, however the more recent stuff like Breathless i'm not convinced about.  Also the fact that he thought Divided Years was F8c, its blatantly know where near 8c. Gresham thought 8a/+ and si's had a close look. Theres just too many stories going round for them all to be made up, no smoke without fire an all that. Who knows?

[Bubba]

I don't wish to reignite this tired old debate

Just posted this by accident did you?  :wink:

For the record - although I've not seen him for years, I used to know John pretty well and the one thing that he never struck me as was a bullshitter.

[T.H.]

I didn't even know there was any doubt.

I'm so out of touch.

Perhaps I should read a climbing magazine or something, although I think I'd rather go climbing.

[Bonjoy]

I don't wish to reignite this tired old debate

Just posted this by accident did you?  :wink:

 I know that a slightly disingenuous thing of me to say (christ I think i must have swallowed a dictionary this morning). However a poll provides an opportunity to guage the general  opinion without people having to delve into lengthy debate. Only the vocal minority ever contribute to a debate so a true picture doesn't emerge. You get the full answer with an anonymous poll(admittedly to a very simplified question) rather than just the words of those who hold a strong view one way the other.
 (also i'm very, very bored)

[Bubba]

I firmly believe that the "doubts" were just rumours circulated by bitchy, scene-obsessed individuals who resented John's ascents on their turf and decided to dirty his name as revenge.

[Doylo]

Did any of you lot go to the Ape Index show in sheff when Dunne was lecturing. It was dramatic to say the least.  For pretty much the whole show Dunne was heckled by dawes and Ritchie patterson. Fair dues to him he handled it well, threatened to throw dawes out the "f'ing window" at one point. Quality entertainment :!:

[Bubba]

threatened to throw dawes out the "f'ing window" at one point

I didnt' go, but I'd have paid good money just to see that threat carried out  

[Doylo]

dawes and patter ended up looking like a right pair of idiots. i remember pretty much everyone in there was stunned by what was going on!

[cofe]

it's not really on topic but the Dunne's walk down the street in t'big issue is proper-funny-proper-broad-big-yorkshire-man-shoulder-swagger-i-throttle-soft-lads-walk.

cracks me up every time.

[Sam]

Dunne was one of the best climbers of his generation & stuff like Partheon & New Statesman are amazing. However, was in Chorro in Jan & saw the Hari Kari cave... I can't really see him hauling his bulk up a 45-50 degree overhand for 40 metres. If he did do so then I'm really sorry to doubt him. Also what about Total Eclipse - Moffat reckoned no harder than 8c, then broke hold, then Dunne repeated it at the same 9a grade...  :? The legacy of amazing routesspeaks for itself though.

[dave]

i thought what happened on total eclipse is that the moffatt crew didn't manage the moves in a 1 day flying visit so decided the dunnster hadn't done it?

[Greg C]

Having met John a number of times and climbed with him once I would say he is sound as a pound and not a bullshitter, that said I would say he ain't the climber he once was nor, by modern standards, has he ever been a "beast". But i do think he did climb all of his earlier climbs and I have no real reason to doubt his newer ascents.

Regarding the Devided Years 8c thing I think he just wasn't climbing as well as he has and it genuinly felt that hard to him.

I think climbing has come along way since the days of Dawes and Dunne did hard trad routes and to be honest neither were what you would call boulderers in the same way Moon and Moffatt were. I mean Dawes has no concept of grading, that guy thinks anything he can't do in two goes is english 7a! And anything that takes a day or more is at least 7b/c! If you transfer that to V-Grades we are talking about a man who is climbing V13's all the time, and has since the early eighties, which is utter tripe.
It always amuses me watching The Big Issue where Dawes has claimed Sloping Beauty at 7a and said Dunne can't climb 7a. The fact is neither of them could and probably never did climb 7a!

But to answer the JD thing I think he's a top geezer and till proved otherwise I believe him!

[mozzer]

i thought what happened on total eclipse is that the moffatt crew didn't manage the moves in a 1 day flying visit so decided the dunnster hadn't done it?

Thats the story I heard. Pretty cool actually. Muffrat saying Dunney couldnt have done it, then breaks a hold and says "well its impossible now anyway". Dunne repeats... nice.

[Trevor N]

Hmm... yes Dawes has sometimes grades badly, but saying that he has never climbed 7a is a bit of an exaduration!  I climbed with him on the chromlic boulders once and he could do all of the moves to some of the powerful V10/11s and he is by FAR better at slabby and groovy stuff!

Jerry Moffat couldn't do 17 of the moves on his big slate project! So some of those moves must have been pity hard! :shock:

I find that most of the Dawes stuff that gets downgraded tends to be the ones that contain moves that normal sized people can just reach through.

Yes he isn't anything special by today's standards, but he still isn't bad, particularly at moves that suit him.

[a dense loner]

agree wi trev there, but also have to say the man is/was a genius. people do tend to lank thro most things he's done, but the legacy he's left is unbelievable. none were more shocked than me when he jumped on superman last year n was gettin quite close to the move while carryin up an enormous stomach  :shock:

[Doylo]

none were more shocked than me when he jumped on superman last year n was gettin quite close to the move

Kin ell  :shock:

[dave]

:::WELSH LOCAL ALERT:::

"chromlic?!"

(sic)


Whoooaaa there, sounds like you've got the thirst for one of these puppies!!!
g

[a dense loner]

my thoughts exactly chris!

[Trevor N]

I can't spell in English, let alone in Welsh! And yes I do need the new guide.

[PaulJ]

Dunne was one of the best climbers of his generation & stuff like Partheon & New Statesman are amazing. However, was in Chorro in Jan & saw the Hari Kari cave... I can't really see him hauling his bulk up a 45-50 degree overhand for 40 metres. If he did do so then I'm really sorry to doubt him. Also what about Total Eclipse - Moffat reckoned no harder than 8c, then broke hold, then Dunne repeated it at the same 9a grade...  :? The legacy of amazing routesspeaks for itself though.

You should have watched John training on the 45 degree woodie at Warrington a few years ago.....he could circuit round on that thing all day...and no fucking great jugs!

You also might be interested to know that JD's ascent of Hari Kari was witnessed by none other than Big Ron.......Also had moffat done Total eclipse First ascent, wouldnt it have nee graded 8c+/9a ? Just like evolution..?

Having climbed with JD several times and had several good chats i hereby pronounce that hes sound.....

Sheffield-centric jealousy is all it ammounts to....

[dave]

Sheffield-centric jealousy is all it ammounts to....

thanks but i think the vast majority of us would prefer not be tarred with that brush. more like dawes-centric jealously.