[shark]

Mine are sore pretty much all the time and have been for some time and it is uncomfortable trying to get to sleep on my side.

Massage / physio has given some relief but it comes back. Suggestions ?

[Dolly]

Do you do any theraband strengthening exercises ?

[GCW]

It's often the balance of muscle groups that is the issue, rather than it being one specific muscle.  Or is it radicular from your neck?

Usual cop out advice i'm afraid- see someone that knows!

[shark]

Do you do any theraband strengthening exercises ?

No.

It's often the balance of muscle groups that is the issue, rather than it being one specific muscle.  Or is it radicular from your neck?

Localised in the muscle - I think that is the same as radicular

[tomtom]

Mrs TT gets this bad - I think its from her hunch back keyboard/computer positioning..
She's had quite a bit of relief from acupuncture for this*

*voodoo may be as effective

[shark]

Mrs TT gets this bad - I think its from her hunch back keyboard/computer positioning..
She's had quite a bit of relief from acupuncture for this*

I have done a lot to straighten myself out over the last few years so it will be disappointing to discover this is the cause

[JohnM]

You need to "open up" your pecs.  Do stretches for pectoralis minor and also theraband exercises will help.

[Dolly]

In my limited and personal experience the theraband exercises from UKC and here do help.
I haven't been able to lie on my right side for months, but its starting to get a little better now so I can do it for slightly longer periods.

[shark]

You need to "open up" your pecs.  Do stretches for pectoralis minor

Cheers - I'll look into it - is there one you do in a doorway ?

[shark]

In my limited and personal experience the theraband exercises from UKC and here
I haven't been able to lie on my right side for months, but its starting to get a little better now so I can do it for slightly longer periods.

Thanks Dolly

[duncan]

1. What kind of moves hurt? Post a video clip here of you performing your painful move, top off, from back, shoulder blades clearly visible.  Ideally good and bad side performing mirror activities system board style. 

2. What are you currently doing for exercises, stretches? What is 'physio'?

3. Anything helping (even a bit) other than massage and physio? 

4. Read this and this and digest. Doing anything like the scapular stabilisation stuff here?

[jmews]

I have also had some pain here. Worse still, mine became noticeable after spending a few months opening up my chest and working on rotator cuff weaknesses. I assumed that the strength work may not have kept up with the new flexibility (chest was very tight previously). Haven't found a solution yet.

[fatdoc]

Different solutions no doubt work for different people

Ffiw I have found chest opening, mainly using flow yoga DVDs... And a light freeweights programme focused on pecs, biceps... So it's A lot of pushing, not pulling...has sorted out a lot of my chronic thoracic back pain.

I subscribe to the imbalance concept, as in effect you are chronically dragging the scapula / thoracic shoulder girdle out of shape by having a powerful back, but your anterior shoulder and pectorals can't hold the shoulder in neutral at rest. Hence the climbers stoop.

Apart from the usual recommendations of sport massage etc.. Give something new a go..

It took me 3 months to be painkiller free from starting a beginners yoga DVD 3 times a week for 30 mins each session. I was, and still am crap at it. I can breathe well now! But back bends I have not improved. ( disclaimer, have broken it twice).

Very good for improving focus and concentration too.

Some mindfulness meditation also helped my posture, but that is very similar ( to my very basic level of understanding) to yoga breathing exercises.

[shark]

1. What kind of moves hurt? Post a video clip here of you performing your painful move, top off, from back, shoulder blades clearly visible.  Ideally good and bad side performing mirror activities system board style. 

2. What are you currently doing for exercises, stretches? What is 'physio'?

3. Anything helping (even a bit) other than massage and physio? 

4. Read this and this and digest. Doing anything like the scapular stabilisation stuff here?

Hi Duncan,

Climbing doesnt hurt it. I generally dont notice it at all when climbing. I think JohnM could be on the money as it seems to relieve the pressure when I push my shoulders back but as was kindly pointed out to me in a PM ....

Your supraspinatus pain may not be your spraspinatus.  the shoulder joint is complicated and a biomechanical nightmare and dysfunction is not normally related to one specific muscle.  it's true shortened pectroalis minor/major can cause problems but scapula control is equally important.  there seems to be over emphasis on strengthening the rotator cuff.  however the rotator cuff is only there to ensure good biomechanical movement at the glenohumeral joint for that to happen the scapular must be controlled.

I've booked to see a professional on Monday

[TobyD]

You need to "open up" your pecs.  Do stretches for pectoralis minor and also theraband exercises will help.

That sounds reasonably wise, although I'm not sure about the theraband. Though most climbers will be using one, hoping to improve the activation of their rotator cuff in shoulder movement, they often seem to make the exercise too hard, and compensate with a more powerful muscle, thus doing little toward this objective.
Simple opposition is probably more reliable, unless you are very disciplined. 

[shark]

Offline interesting reply to my comment that the soreness wasn't inhibiting strength:

you probably won't get pain on high load work due to you recruiting the large prime movers as opposed to the low threshold stabilisers.  it's a timing issue not a strength issue.  EMG of patients with pain have demonstrated that the low threshold stabilisers are slow to recruit during low load movement this causes uncontrolled movement at the joint or over recruitment of inappropriate muscles.

[shark]

Seen Steve Hodgson at Hallamshire Physio this morning. The problem is a "learned" tightness in the trapezius and poor positioning of the shoulder requiring a bit of relearning rather than stretching as the range of movement is inherently OK. The learned pattern of positioning may have been caused or exacerbated by deadhanging and doing pulls in a side-on position and being deskbound at work. The "treatment" is to vary the deadhanging position with more frontal orientations, to practice outward arm rotation movements with and without resistance and maybe do some tricep strengthening work. 

[Stubbs]

So The Wedge is to blame?!

[shark]

So The Wedge is to blame?!

Well spotted. I think so, partially. Being a desk jockey doesn't help.

The Wedge is good for crag warm ups and general hangs but I think hanging off it with 45kg+ attached to your harness is pushing its capabilities too far. Even so, doing that didn't injure me but the side on orientation became a learned pattern.

If anyone else does weighted deadhangs with the Wedge (unlikely) I'd advise they do some front on stretches with a theraband before and after. From now on I'll do the hangs from two Wedges.

BTW fingerboards aren't perfect either. Ideally they should have slightly outward angled edges for a more natural and less stressed hanging position.

[Rocksteady]

I've just come back from a consultation with a shoulder expert following an MRI scan.

Initially the consultant was concerned that I had a SLAP tear, but on examining the MRI scan he says he thinks I have internal shoulder impingement on my supraspinatus.

I'm going to get physio - I'll report back on this thread if I get some useful exercises.

[shark]

I've just come back from a consultation with a shoulder expert following an MRI scan.

Initially the consultant was concerned that I had a SLAP tear, but on examining the MRI scan he says he thinks I have internal shoulder impingement on my supraspinatus.

I'm going to get physio - I'll report back on this thread if I get some useful exercises.

Another thing that Steve chatted about was climbers locking by moving the shoulder down and forward restricting the already constricted space that the tendons have to pass through the shoulder. Doing the moves doesn't necessarily lead to impingement but the body "learning" that this inefficient positioning of the shoulder as somehow normal and strong goes on to maintain it in daily life especially if you are at a desk using a mouse when not climbing. He reckons that, physiologically, the best job for a climber is shelf stacking.

[scottygillery]

I have suffered with radiating nerve pains in my arms off and on for a few years (usually more on when in font). After seeing the physio she confirmed that weak rotator cuff muscles and hunched posture (both whilst sitting and as shark mentions above during deep lock) is constricting tendons and the ulnar nerve. She has prescribed exercises to strengthen the lower traps and rotator cuff and several stretches to improve shoulder mobility. During sessions she has been working on knots in my thoracic spine, rotator cuff muscles and pec minors. It's only been a few weeks but my posture has improved already, will post an update in a few weeks if anyones interested.

The video below is an at home version of the work she does on my pecs. Mobility Wod is great by the way.

[shark]

It's only been a few weeks but my posture has improved already, will post an update in a few weeks if anyones interested.

Yes please and thanks for vid

[SA Chris]

You need to "open up" your pecs.  Do stretches for pectoralis minor

Cheers - I'll look into it - is there one you do in a doorway ?

What you doing hanging around in doorways?

[andy_e]

In my limited and personal experience the theraband exercises from UKC and here do help.
I haven't been able to lie on my right side for months, but its starting to get a little better now so I can do it for slightly longer periods.

Hmmm, one of those exercises I can't even do with a theraband... Looks like I need to do some exercising!