[Greg C]

Just been reading a really funny (unintensionally so) thread on Rock talk. In which some guy is banging on about Diffs with 3a and 3b moves and some 3c moves!!!

So this got me thinking, never mind all this talk about does English 8a exist what I want to know is does English 2a exist?  
And I want some examples!
                     

[Big Frank]

To save time trawling through all the shit can we have a link?

[dontfollowme]

Is 3c climbing? Isn't that more scrambling?

[dave]

i've got the old Rock Climbing In The Peak District guidebook by Paul Nunn, which is a shite guidebook, but as far as i can remember every route is given a technical grade. Now paul nunn was no slouch, and i'd be surprised if he could tell the difference betweena 2b and a 3b.

Another interesting point is that if people back in the day took the same stance on the lower grades as a lot of people do now on the 7s, then we'd have every move graded 7a, and 7b can't exist unless its the harest things in the world!

[Bubba]

I reckon walking upstairs would be a "sustained series of 1a moves" or something  

[squeek]

I was wondering something along these lines in Font when I was
on a yellow circuit    Something graded 1a to me should be
only just crossing the borders of walking/rock climbing.
Then 1b should feel one grade harder in effort/technique, and so on.

Although this would probably make a linear scale and would end up
meaning a V14 + V1 would be V15.  Are climbing grades exponential?

I don't know, and I think I've just confused myself   :?    

[Nigel]

"Are climbing grades exponential?"

No, but they may be geometric!    

[Carnage]

On the Southern Sandstone there are loads of routes graded lower than 3c. I think there's definitely a 1a there and plenty of stuff in the 2's!    In fact, in the area guide there are 28 routes under 2c!

C'mon guys- Can anyone admit to noticing the difference in diffculty between a 3c and a 4a?

[Bubba]

So what's a 1a like ?

I reckon I could tell between 5a and 5b, but below that it's tricky. I guess a lot of people on this board would have trouble telling between 5c and 6a, or maybe even 6a and 6b?

[Carnage]

So what's a 1a like ?

I dunno - I couldn't do it the last time I was there!  :cry: :wink:

[dave]

i recon i can do 4a and above, cos thats what you tend to get in peak guides.

To be honest when me and Paz were going to wharncliffe and leading Diffs, VDiffs and Severes, the last thing we would have thought about was technical grades - and we didn't percieve not having them on our routes as a problem. back then it was simple, some routes were just harder then others.

One of the things I recon influences not using tech grades on easy routes is that, and i'm going to use a sweeping generalisation here, at those grades theres generally about 30 ways of doing any one move/s, and as such hard to pinpoint a crux move since the crux point could amount to either 1,2 or 5 moves in the same place by different methods, its going to be very hard to pin an exact or even rough grade on it.

seems ot me that the guidebook writers "saying this is 2a" is a bit like those adverts that say "gives you hair 73% more young-looking" if you get me.

[Paz]

I don't think back then I knew what order Diff, Severe, V Diff were supposed to go in.  I was much more concerned about not dropping my wires, and about being able to do everything you could do.  Only with more panache   :poke: .  

It's funny how at the top end, british tech grades are uselessly broad where as at the bottom end they're uselessly refined.  I don't want to go down the route ofthose cringe worthy fools who give themselves 4c for crawling out of a tent, butyou could probably interpret low english tech's in a similar way as the Yosemite Decimal system:  1.x = Oxford Street, 2.x = Raven Tor walk in, 3.x = Stanage walk in, 4.x = Wimberry walk in, 5.x =  routes.

[squeek]

4.x = Wimberry walk in, 5.x = routes

I'm sure I've done lots of easier routes than the Wimberry walk in,
easy moves but very pumpy!   :wink:

[webbo]

isnt  decending to the bottom of woodhouse scar  with your mat harder than 1a or 3c etc :!:

[unclesomebody]

there are plenty of 1a, 1b, 2a chimneys at high rocks.  We all failed on them, which was highly amusing.  The southern crew should check em out next time you're there!  The chimney next to chez's dyno is hard for 1a!

[james]

Thats 3a ill have you know, and top end at that.

[unclesomebody]

it wasn't! It was 1b!  what do you know about grades anyway youth?  he he...

[Jim]

The wimberry walk in is easy compared to frodsham direct walk in

[Fiend]

One of the things I recon influences not using tech grades on easy routes is that, and i'm going to use a sweeping generalisation here, at those grades theres generally about 30 ways of doing any one move/s, and as such hard to pinpoint a crux move since the crux point could amount to either 1,2 or 5 moves in the same place by different methods, its going to be very hard to pin an exact or even rough grade on it.

Don't think that's right, it only feels that way to you because moves at that level are so far below your technical limit. Consider this:

For someone for whom VDiff 3c is their absolute technical maximum (say, for example, FH   , I mean we're talking serious punterage here, most VDiff leaders must be totally underperforming)), then to climb such a route the 3c way, they are going to have to work out the single easiest way (everything has an easiest, most efficient way - even climbing the stairs). That will be the 3c method....there will be lots of other methods from 4a upwards.

Now, for someone whom E2 5c is their maximum, they get on the same VDiff 3c, they might do it the 3c way, or the 4a ways, or the 4b ways....but because it's a long way below their technical limit, they won't tell the difference, it will just feel like there is a variety of ways that are all vaguely similar.

The same thing would apply higher up the grades....say you've got someone like Malc or the G on, say, Green Traverse - there's a variety of methods and one easiest V6ish way. Your V6 punter will have to find the V6 method....while the big boys could do it the V6 or V7 or V8 methods, and they'll all feel vaguely similar when you're used to V14.

There was a point to all this.... :? .....oh yes, it's all relative, that's it. One can't really understand how climbers way above or way below your standards are experiencing technical difficulties at their standards.[/i]

[Big Frank]

Fiend, your a knob!