[Paul B]

Do you mean complete? You've said exchange twice.

Ask your solicitor. Due to ever changing restrictions we were advised that exchange/completion should happen on the same day.

[tomtom]

Do you mean complete? You've said exchange twice.

Ask your solicitor. Due to ever changing restrictions we were advised that exchange/completion should happen on the same day.

Yes thats what I meant (modified the OP now). As there is no chain - and we are not moving in on the day of exchange - restrictions won't be a problem (I think)...

Solicitor said "There is, of course, an increased risk in exchanging so far in advance before completion as the contract does become legally binding once we exchange" - which doesn't really say much... and putting my solicitor filter on means its OK, but there is a risk that I have to tell you about...

[tommytwotone]

What's the nature of the risk here?

If I'm right this is just the difference between agreeing / baselining the contractual side, and you actually paying for the house.

Only thing I can think of is that something catastrophic happens to the house in the 4-week window, but presumably that's mitigated by the fact you're gonna insure it from point of exchange?

[tomtom]

What's the nature of the risk here?

If I'm right this is just the difference between agreeing / baselining the contractual side, and you actually paying for the house.

Only thing I can think of is that something catastrophic happens to the house in the 4-week window, but presumably that's mitigated by the fact you're gonna insure it from point of exchange?

Thats what we thought too... Exchanging now means we don't risk losing the house (for whatever reason) but we're not yet ready to start any building work - so the month delay is fine. Just losing any interest (which is f*ck all at the moment) on the deposit we have to pay at exchange..

[RobK]

There's a breakdown of some risks here.

https://www.bowfin.co.uk/what-can-go-wrong-between-exchange-and-completion/

[tomtom]

There's a breakdown of some risks here.

https://www.bowfin.co.uk/what-can-go-wrong-between-exchange-and-completion/

Taa Rob. Think we can cover off all of those OK.

[Paul B]

Does the insurance on the new place cover you without occupancy (for >30 days)?

[tomtom]

Does the insurance on the new place cover you without occupancy (for >30 days)?

Yup. Abs while building work being done.

[ali k]

I remember reading something about legally needing ‘vacant posession’ as part of the process of completion. I’m sure your solicitor would’ve warned you if this was an issue though? Ignore me if this isn’t relevant.

[mrjonathanr]

What's the nature of the risk here?

Only thing I can think of is that something catastrophic happens to the house in the 4-week window, but presumably that's mitigated by the fact you're gonna insure it from point of exchange?

It used to be that the risk lay with the vendor to provide the property as described in the contract. I heard that the responsibility has since shifted to the buyer ie - if the house is damaged, you still have to pay as at the point of exchange, not in its new condition. I'd check this out.

[ali k]

Just to update for anyone reading in the future...

Solicitor = Keely Moore at Eatons. May update this if she's shit.

Further update and vent on this. Turns out she is, in fact, shit. Generally poor communication throughout, giving us the bare minimum in her responses to our queries when she does finally reply.

To top it off we were supposed to exchange yesterday and complete today (after 4 previous completion dates had been pushed back). She finally said last week she was sending us contracts to sign. Got an email this Monday morning from her saying the sellers at the top of the chain had covid so couldn’t move on that date, but that her report and contracts were prepared and she’d send them out that day. They arrived Wednesday. How the fuck she thought that would have been sufficient time to check through everything and get them back to her by yesterday for exchange (assuming the Covid thing hadn’t happened - which makes me suspicious that’s just an excuse).

And on top of all that we’d asked right at the start of the process to be ‘tenants in common’ with unequal shares (as we’ve put different amounts into the deposit) and told her how we wanted the shares to be split. The transfer deed she’d sent was marked as ‘joint tenants’. So now she’s had to send us another transfer deed. That fuck up alone would have caused the moving date to fall through.

Anyway, we were expecting her also to send a separate ‘Declaration of Trust’, as from what we’ve read that’s fairly standard if you’re tenants in common. But it’s just come through today and she hasn’t sent us that either.

So...anyone versed in this kind of thing able to offer any advice? If the title deed states the share split, can we get away without a separate ‘Declaration of Trust’? Deposit amounts are different but mortgage and any renovations will be split 50/50 so at the end of the mortgage we’ll have the same share split as on day one. Only reason I can see for getting the ‘Declaration of Trust’ under those circumstances is to state who your share of the property goes to if you die (it’s not automatic like joint tenants). But I could be totally wrong here or missing something fundamental.

Under normal circumstances I’m sure the answer would be “speak to your solicitor” but given all of the above and that she has never once answered her phone or replied to a voicemail I have zero confidence in her.

[tomtom]

Ugh that sucks Ali.

We completed at the beginning of Feb - but that was pushed back from “all ready to go” just before Xmas. Both solicitors blaming each other. In the end both us abs the vendor were badgering our respective solicitors until it went through.

We went with a large (and fairly expensive) local firm - and initially were treated like crap. No calls or queries returned etc.. I emailed one of the senior partners and documented their failings and we were swiftly transferred to a different person who was tbh pretty good.

At your stage it’s that horrible in too deep to change point I’d guess which may mean just politely badgering them every day until it happens....

[ali k]

I emailed one of the senior partners and documented their failings

We plan to do this after it’s gone through but before they send the invoice. Yeh at this stage I don’t want to do anything to cause yet another hold up so we’re a bit stuck with her.

[kac]

Afraid I don't have any particular knowledge to help. I get the impression legal stuff like is made deliberately confusing to justify the fees! Anyway im sure you have thought about it and have enough on your plate but if I have understood you correctly that seems a less than ideal financial set up. If I was contributing 50% of everything bar the initial deposit id want to get to a position where I owned 50% of the house. It also sounds like a will would be a good idea at some point. Good luck with it all.

[ali k]

that seems a less than ideal financial set up. If I was contributing 50% of everything bar the initial deposit id want to get to a position where I owned 50% of the house. It also sounds like a will would be a good idea at some point.

As far as I’m aware this is fairly common. With unequal initial deposits the smaller ‘investor’ could either contribute to more of the mortgage/renovations aiming to get to 50% share of the house over time, or pay equal mortgage/renovation payments and the share split stays the same at the end of the mortgage. We did check this but you’ve got me doubting myself now!!

Yes to a will. I think it will be a good idea.

[kac]

Sorry Ali - not meaning to add more stress! It just seems a much better deal for the person with the bigger deposit. You could argue they deserve it as the bigger investor but long term id have thought its ideally better to try get on an equal footing. Its definitely common to not have a perfectly fair set up - mine is far from perfect!

Just thinking about the declaration of trust I think it might be needed as legal confirmation of the purpose of buying the house together. Ie your buying it as a home to live in together. This is important because if this changes it gives each party the right to go to court to force a sale on the basis the initial trust has ended. Hope that makes some sense and I could be talking nonsense as im not a solicitor!

[tomtom]

We did the same with our house. Was 50/50 - but we wanted 75/25 (for a range of reasons). We had to sign new contracts - only took her a day to sort it out.

[ali k]

Just to top it all off we received the ‘completion statement’ from her last night showing the balance due, which she’s also made a pigs ear of.

Not only have the legal fees increased by close to £300 from the original estimate, but she’s also randomly added about £2k on to the balance owing, which we can only assume is a calculation or typing error as there’s no other explanation for this. Absolute joke and doesn’t inspire confidence about the attention to detail paid to the rest of her work.

[tomtom]

Check your messages..

[Paul B]

Ali, I'd try your best just to take a deep breath and get on with it. My purchase had similar hiccups with documentation which having had to get a witness during lockdowns was quite frustrating. You won't care once it's done.

Similarly my folks are having the same problems buying a new house now; their completion balance due yesterday was incorrect. They move out on the 6th 

It's a farce but you don't get anywhere getting worked up by it and complaining gets you moved to A N Other with a different set of evils!

[Rocksteady]

Resurrecting this old thread to see if I can get any help on a problem I'm having:

Moving out of London to southern counties, typical move have a young family and need way more space than I can afford in the most expensive city in the world.
My wife and I like traditional houses and architecture etc and found a Grade II listed farmhouse, old timber framed job etc. We were informed before offering that the house was subject to some underpinning 25-30 years ago. Slightly fell in love with the house/garden and made an offer.

We got a full survey by a specialist 'heritage' building surveyor and I took the opportunity to have a walkaround with him. Basically a long list of things probably that I would have expected given the age of the property etc, some things that are sort of perfect world jobs like repointing with specialist heritage building materials etc. He mentioned that it was a little bit suspicious that the whole house had been recarpeted and repainted as this could cover up issues. Most importantly he mentioned that there were signs potentially of more recent 'movement' i.e. subsidence and it would be good to have sight of the report on the underpinning work, particularly as the chimney is leaning.

It has proven impossible to get this report. The sellers claim they have lost it and have given their recollection of what sounds like a massive piece of work with the house basically starting to collapse into an old cellar. The surveyor who oversaw the work after a lot of chasing has surfaced and claims she also has lost all her records of the work. The sellers' solicitor has had a weird strop that we are investigating this and has said we need to exchange within a week or they will reconsider - I am not taking this seriously, but also consider it a classic scammers move to put people under time pressure to make a financial decision. Furthermore, the TA6 form has turned out there is Japanse Knotweed on the property, ostensibly removed and under a guarantee for another 7 years or something.

I was expecting a list of things to tackle on an ongoing basis with an old house, but the subsidence plus knotweed feel like 2 red flags for getting insured and for selling on, and I am starting to be a bit suspicious of the sellers. They don't live in the UK any more and originally I had the picture this was a recent move but now I'm thinking they have not lived in this property for years and have let it out for long periods. Have a bit of a feeling they are covering up problems they know the house has and don't want to deal with.

Right now I am debating my options. Clearly I need to get a structural engineer around to assess whether the house is imminently going to fall down. I guess I just have 2 choices, renegotiate the price or pull out. And whether any amount of money discount is worth the hassle this is all going to be.

Interested in others who've had similar experiences, any advice etc would be appreciated.

[webbo]

 It sounds like one to walk away from and I would be suspicious if they offered you a decent discount.

[Scouse D]

walk away

[SA Chris]

I wouldn't just walk away, I would be getting a fresh pair of running shoes.

Knotweed guarantee sounds a bit dubious too. Wherever it came from in the first place it can come from again.

[mr chaz]

Walk away, especially if you're suspicious that subsidence might still be ongoing. A recent subsidence claim I worked on involved 3 years of monitoring by structural engineers followed by a ground investigation, all of which costs £ thousands, and that's just to find out the problem.

Knotweed is another