[cha1n]

DPM put a photo up on facebook but found this through google, the Five Ten Team VXi:



Anyone have some more info on them? The black teams haven't been out long so this seems a little premature. DPM states that they have a new last and are easier on/off. New last sounds interesting, hopefully they'll fit more like the Jet 7's and they don't appear to have the pointless material patch on inside of the heel... Which is good...

[Paul B]

They're incredibly soft, as in role up and put in your wallet soft.

The sole does look different, more akin to Scarpa technology. Interestingly I saw Monkey Boy in a new pair of Black (yet blue) wings. Improved heel etc. they looked pretty good to me.

[cha1n]

Interesting! I was wondering how much support there would be, usually there's a section of rand that goes from the front of the shoe and joins into the heel rand in an upward, arcing shape. Whereas these ones just have rand around the bottom and the heel area looks pretty low cut.

All that aside, I don't mind soft shoes, especially for steep stuff. I guess these are similar stiffness to the Hornets then? I don't know if you've felt the teams but they are pretty soft anyway, especially when broken in.

Good news about the Blackwings, had they ditched the material patch on their heels too, like the women's version? I'd be interested to try these again, anything with Stealth HF on the bottoms is worth a look imo!

[remus]

http://www.climbingzine.com/portfolios/winter-or-samson-says-light-is-right/

The above source reckons they're going to be released in July.

Also says "While the rubber is too thin and soft to be an everyday outdoor shoe..." which sounds a little worrying to me. I like an extensive climbing shoe collection as much as the next guy but a shoe that is specifically lacking in durability is a hard sell for me. Then again it might just be the usual soft slipper lack of durability. Who knows.

[iwasmexican]

They're incredibly soft, as in role up and put in your wallet soft.

which now has plenty of room for them i presume

[cha1n]

which now has plenty of room for them i presume

That's something that alarmed me from the article above (thanks for the link remus), retail at $170 which is La Sportiva Futura prices and they are the most expensive shoe on the market! I don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) would pay money like that for such a specialist shoe.

Regarding the durability, I'd read from the article that they're more referring to the softness of the shoe and relating more to pain tolerance rather than durability. These sort of seem like a really expensive version of the 5.10 projects (currently selling for £45). Don't think I'll bother with these but at least there's been some good news regarding an upgraded blackwing!

[Wipey Why]

It would appear that this is another shoe in Five Ten's scatter gun approach to the market. By offering something for every single possible niche  something will hopefully stick and then they can stop manufacturing the others soon after. 

[slackline]

I don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) would pay money like that for such a specialist shoe.

Thats a strange statement (to me at least) because usually when something is specialist or targeted at a very niche market it will inherently be more expensive because the scope for shifting large number of units is diminished, so the return on each item has to be higher (viz. economies of scale).

If you want a 'specialist' shoe you can expect to pay top dollar for it.

[Stubbs]

I don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) would pay money like that for such a specialist shoe.

I you go to any of the London walls you'll see a lot of people wearing solutions, sometimes with socks underneath, often loose enough to walk around in.  I'm sure a lo of these people will be wearing Futuras when they are more readily available.

[Durbs]

True dat - although shoe-of-choice down Craggy2 is currently Katana's which are usually available <£100.
Solutions do seem to be pretty popular despite the price though...

[Paul B]

All that aside, I don't mind soft shoes, especially for steep stuff. I guess these are similar stiffness to the Hornets then? I don't know if you've felt the teams but they are pretty soft anyway, especially when broken in.

Far softer than the hornets.

[Wipey Why]

I you go to any of the London walls you'll see a lot of people wearing solutions, sometimes with socks underneath, often loose enough to walk around in.  I'm sure a lo of these people will be wearing Futuras when they are more readily available.

It is people like this who keep the majority of the climbing industry in business. They certainly don't make much off those of us who get their shoes resoled repeatedly and refuse to buy shoes until they absolutely have to.

[andymarshll]

Far softer than the hornets.

Fuck me! I thought the only things softer than hornets were actual liquids.

[Monolith]

Still wearing a pair of the blue teams and really can't fathom why they needed to dick around with them. Probably the first climbing shoe I've never had a single complaint about. These green things look dump. I hope to be proved wrong.

[robertostallioni]

To be fair, the old LaSportiva mantra (and mantra S's) were far softer than hornets, and decent on a board or roof. Took at least a couple of weeks till your feet got strong enough to support themselves though.

Only worth paying 50 quid though.

Like Stubbles says, only of value in the deepest of sales.

[Moo]

I like to think that five ten have a development room which consists of clowns on acid juggling umpa lumpas the resulting geometries of which are interpreted by monkeys wearing little fez hats which then feed the data into playdough extrusion machines backwards resulting in some of their hysterical products.

[dave]

Whatever wafer thin wonder shoe fiveten come up with it'll be on sale for 50 sheets in a years time and we'll all still be wearing velcros, whites or whatever dragon equivalent still exists. When will they fucking learn.

[Moo]

I think their lesson learned was that you can put whatever cost they like on 'miracle' shoes as in the modern world of bouldering walls people will buy them due to their perception of what they'll be able to achieve with them. It's not just dirt bag climbers buying shoes anymore, it's the young professional crowd with plenty of spare cash and it's no surprise that they're now making shoes for that market.

[Paul B]

Still wearing a pair of the blue teams and really can't fathom why they needed to dick around with them. Probably the first climbing shoe I've never had a single complaint about. These green things look dump. I hope to be proved wrong.

I don't think these are instead of the blue (now black) teams, they're supplemental. I climbed in the green ones tonight for a brief few minutes. They were softer and thinner than anything I've had on my feet before, I could feel shed loads through them. I prefer a stiffer shoe so they weren't to my taste but I could see them being good for anything involving lots of clamping, toe-hooking etc.

[slackline]

I like to think that five ten have a development room which consists of clowns on acid juggling umpa lumpas the resulting geometries of which are interpreted by monkeys wearing little fez hats which then feed the data into playdough extrusion machines backwards resulting in some of their hysterical products.

Thats one vivid imagination you've got there.


Could this explosion in shoe design and bi-annual revision of models be a consequence of Five-ten's buy out  by Addidas? They purportedly said they'd be left alone to get on with things as they want, but perhaps turnover /profit wasn't as high as hoped.  To address this they're keeping their core range for dedicated climbers and churning out lots of new shit for the "young professional crowd with plenty of spare cash"

[tomtom]

5:10 seem to pump out loads of slightly different shoes before and after the Addidas takeover.. It's a bit of a shotgun marketing/product development strategy, and given their random sizing/production control - I recon its monkeys..

[Paul B]

Could this explosion in shoe design and bi-annual revision of models be a consequence of Five-ten's buy out  by Addidas? They purportedly said they'd be left alone to get on with things as they want, but perhaps turnover /profit wasn't as high as hoped.  To address this they're keeping their core range for dedicated climbers and churning out lots of new shit for the "young professional crowd with plenty of spare cash"

I'm not convinced that's what you're seeing, more that they've culled the less successful shoes produced (using the shotgun method) prior to the takeover and now they're seeking to tweak existing models and develop some new stuff.
Despite being too soft (for the UK market, who knows they might be amazing on the steep bouldering common in the US) the new shoes pictured on this thread use a different sole to anything I've seen on a 5.10 before and they're also made out something other than Cowdura.
The tweaks to the blackwings (a shoe that I never really liked) look like genuine improvements rather than the scattered meddling approach of the past.

[remus]

Bit of spiel from 5.10:

[Paul B]

I tried a pair of the instinct slipper velcro things on the other day. The heel is awesome. The rest of the boot is pretty stiff and clumpy currently, hopefully they'll soften a tad.

[cha1n]

You tried them or bought them?

How does the stiffness compare to the lace/original slipper if you've ever tried them? Cheers.

[Nibile]

Five Ten website is awful. It has tha ability to crash any platform I use to visualize it.m
Slow, chaotic and deprived of Team VXi...

[luckyjez]

Scarpa have a new shoe coming out in Spring 15 called the Furia which would be worth a look; toe-down, soft and 'feely', with a very sticky rand and rubber over the toe.
http://eveningsends.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/GT_Climbing_Scarpa_Furia.jpg

[Wood FT]

saw a video somewher of them and they look the softest shoe ever made, I think I'll just get a pair of these instead

[cha1n]

The teams aren't a particularly comfortable shape, not sure I'd want to do long granite slabs in them.

The new (blue) blackwings are just as soft but have the better 'Stealth high friction' rubber on them and they are a more comfortable shape.

[Paul B]

I think the new 'Verdons' and 'Assym' are worth looking out for. Supposedly the Verdons are stiff. I'll believe it when I see it.

[cha1n]

Short granite slabs was more what I was thinking about! The area immediately around my house has several cliffs with slab routes up to 5.13d so it seems rude not to make a modest effort at getting better at them. Right now any slab harder than mid 5.11 seems like the living end.

Do you mean relative to the standard Teams? As far as I can tell, in classic confusing 5.10 fashion, the Team VXi is - or was - a different shoe to the Team and uses - or used - a much softer rubber.

I was assuming you meant the normal teams (new ones are black old version was blue). It's just that they are quite pointy and it feels like you're mainly standing on the big toe, rather than getting a lot of rubber down on the rock. My blackwings (now very worn in) and slipper soft, I can scrunch the toebox up in one hand very easily, when they are new they feel a little insensitive because they have quite a lot of rubber on them which makes them a bit more durable. The teams feel more sensitive out of the box because they are very thin.

I love soft shoes on steep ground but now I've just moved to Sheffield and am climbing on quite a few grit slabs, I find my soft shoes aren't supportive enough for slab work. I've just got a pair of Anasazi VCS and I think they are great for slabs. Not dissimilar to the blackwings but have much more stiffness laterally which helps on those occasions where you are standing on small edges/smears. I usually wear dragons/teams/blackwings.

[cheque]

Five Ten website is awful.

The bizarre terms they use to categorise shoes (Where the fuck are approach shoes- oh here they are, under "Yosemite") are the worst bit- they really just need two. "Shoes we've made since the early 90s" and "Shoes we'll only be making for the next three weeks".

[Stubbs]

The green Teams are near the bottom of a list of shoes I'd want to wear on a granite slab. They essentially have no midsole and very thin rubber, this allows the rubber to deform a lot which doesn't lead to good smearing performance.  Do you not find worn in 'regular' shoes (i.e. what you normally wear on granite) good for these situations?

[duncan]

I recall an article by Jonny Woodward in one of the U.S. rags where he advocated stiff shoes for granite slab climbing. If I recall correctly his reasoning was that stiffness was essential for any small features and didn't stop him smearing. This was shoes of 20 years ago though.

The Five Ten Verdon is said to be good for "precision edges and steep pocketed faces" which sounds promising.

However they are described as “offering the comfort of a shoe you could wear on a ten pitch route at Red Rocks” , are made of suede - five ten use synthetic materials for their most technical shoes - and the laces don't extend to the toes. Sound like they're a Galileo replacement at best.

[Wood FT]

ugly colour as well

"check out my new teals"

[cha1n]

Apologies, I somehow managed to miss that your post was attached to a thread about the new teams. Pretty ironic as I started the thread...

I've tried on the new Scarpa Booster S and whilst not as soft as these teams they seem like they'd smear well. Expensive though.

[AndyR]

Short granite slabs was more what I was thinking about! The area immediately around my house has several cliffs with slab routes up to 5.13d so it seems rude not to make a modest effort at getting better at them. Right now any slab harder than mid 5.11 seems like the living end.

Do you mean relative to the standard Teams? As far as I can tell, in classic confusing 5.10 fashion, the Team VXi is - or was - a different shoe to the Team and uses - or used - a much softer rubber.

I love soft shoes on steep ground but now I've just moved to Sheffield and am climbing on quite a few grit slabs, I find my soft shoes aren't supportive enough for slab work. I've just got a pair of Anasazi VCS and I think they are great for slabs. Not dissimilar to the blackwings but have much more stiffness laterally which helps on those occasions where you are standing on small edges/smears. I usually wear dragons/teams/blackwings.

Thanks. I have tried Anasazi VCS but they don't seem to fit me well. And I do want to try something significantly softer. I have a good collection of stiffer shoes, which work well on steeper granite slabs and walls, but I think a different style of shoe may be optimal for the easier-angled more frictiony slabs.

Tried a pair of bedded-in greens?

[Stubbs]

How about a Moccasaym or maybe a speedster? Try and find somewhere to try before you buy with the vxi's, I can't imagine them being anything but a waste of time on granite slabs.

[Paul B]

Wrecked whites or just broken in greens might be good? I found the greens to deform far too easily when they were getting old, this feels terrifying on the routes habrich is speaking of.

Slippers just twist with fear sweating begins...

I tried climbing something very easy in brand new whites (Diedre) then droe straight to the shop and bought the C4'd Velcro's.

[AndyR]

Those old school slipper designs are too loose in the toe, IMO. I have an old pair of Five Ten 5X, yet another one of their blink-and-you-miss-it shoes, which are a Mocc with the old Anasazi heel and a velcro strap. That's getting close to what I am after. Also all that part of the Five Ten range are either Stealth C4 or Onyxx. I want something with softer rubber.

Speedster were replaced by Futuras in Sportiva's range, I think.

Have you considered that you're just trying to find excuses not to climb slabs?

Take several pairs along to Black Slabbath and try out the first 3-4 moves - a good test for squamish slabs - I still think a well worn pair of verdes are best.

[Paul B]

I think they must've belonged to Nat, but you're welcome all the same!

Dare I suggest Pinks?

[Stubbs]

Go for it, you seem desperate to buy them! Will be intersting to hear how you get on.

[tomtom]

Those old school slipper designs are too loose in the toe, IMO. I have an old pair of Five Ten 5X, yet another one of their blink-and-you-miss-it shoes, which are a Mocc with the old Anasazi heel and a velcro strap. That's getting close to what I am after. Also all that part of the Five Ten range are either Stealth C4 or Onyxx. I want something with softer

Sounds like an Instinct Slipper job...

[william buck]

Ive been wearing the vxi's for over 4 months now, admittedly predominantly indoors. They are pretty much terrible at everything. Whilst the theory seems plausible- more sensitivity means you can be more precise and confident in what you're standing on- it hasn't really come off for 5.10 unfortunately. Because there's no midsole there is literally ZERO support. The rubber is, as previously mentioned, the softest and most flexible I've ever seen. As a result you can't put any power down through your feet because the rubber simply moulds and 'rolls off' the hold. It's incredibly frustrating. The only thing i could suggest that they be used for, and all i use them for now, is training... because it makes all the problems harder than they should be! Honestly i would consider spending your money elsewhere...

[kelvin]

Sounds like an Instinct Slipper job...

I almost posted this earlier (I've just bought a pair) and decided against it, as I thought, whilst I may like slab climbing - I'm in no position to offer advice to habrich. 3mm rubber, support for the big toe and from all accounts a great smearing shoe one broken in.

[tomtom]

Yup.. Only used mine on grit slabs (seemed ok). Now on my second pair and they're my new fave all round shoe.. Fit my wider feet better than 5:10's... Cheap too.

Sorry - only slabs I've used them kin are grit. Fine so far on most things...

[Lopez]

That's exactly the characteristics I want to try: soft, sticky, sensitive, precise.

Sportiva Cobras (When sized right). Nothing i've worn comes close.

[cha1n]

Actually tried these green teams on the other day and wasn't impressed. They didn't seem to have any tensioning in them at all and they were crazy soft, you could screw them into a ball in your hand with minimal effort. They really felt like you had nothing on your feet so i imagine you wouldn't be able to climb anything that you weren't prepared to climb barefoot.
 
I came away from the shop with a pair of La Sportiva Speedsters. Very sensitive and use the 'No Edge Technology' so they smear like a worn in shoe straight out of the box. Don't think I'll be wearing them in horizontal roofs or anything but I think they'll be excellent on the grit. Perhaps another model to consider.

[cheque]

I came away from the shop with a pair of La Sportiva Speedsters. Very sensitive and use the 'No Edge Technology' so they smear like a worn in shoe straight out of the box. Don't think I'll be wearing them in horizontal roofs or anything but I think they'll be excellent on the grit. Perhaps another model to consider.

They're what Ondra wore on his grit day if I remember correctly.

He would probably have been alright in a pair of Crocs of course, but you get what I mean!

[cha1n]

I think they are his main shoe now going by photos and videos.

He wears them a lot whilst onsighting. I believe that at least one of his 9a onsights were done in them.

He wore them on his trip to raven tor when he onsighted a bunch of classic stuff. Crazy really because they're pretty soft.

Watched a video where he claimed they allowed him to be less precise. I sort of see where he's coming from. There's no edge so it's hard to be precise, you sort of smear over edges instead of trying to edge. Only worn them once though so can't comment too much yet.