[michal]

Interesting article here:

http://climbstrong.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/strength-and-power-training-sessions-for-bouldering/

Just curious to hear thoughts on it, particularly regarding amount of volume per session and rests in between sessions.

Thanks!

[shark]

Love this observation:

" Many of us are stuck training “medium.” We train too frequently to really train hard, still being tired from the previous day’s training. That feeling of fatigue might feel right to some. It’s not. Life in the middle is rough…it’s too hard to recover and too easy to get you strong".

I've been doing less days on and more intense sessions this winter so I'm hoping this works !

In general Bechtel's advice has always struck me as being as well grounded practically and scientifically as anybody else out there. Obviously they are generic but you could do a lot worse than follow his sessions then adapt them to your needs.

[Schnell]

Hey, I be noob, but I'm interested in the whole training plan design and periodisation business. Maybe I should just wait for the next article mentioned at the end but I wonder what people's opinions are on how often power/strength/power endurance sessions should be done, i.e. when Bechtel mentions two sessions per week of whatever training it is, is this the only climbing training to be done at the time? If not, if we're interspersing endurance or whatever, is that not not periodisation (if you don't misunderstand me)? Do people generally consider periodisation as applying within an individual traning session, or over a period of weeks/months, is what I'm trying to ask? 

[iain]

For fingerboarding back when Dave Macleod only had a strip of wood above his door he posted a routine similar to that. 4 grip types for 4 reps each, 5-8 sec hangs with 1-2 min rest between reps.

This was during the time he went from being "how come he's sponsored?" Dave* to "he's gotten strong" Dave.

He was obviously doing other training, but other than spending a lot of time at Dumbarton I've no idea what.

*as a punter he's always looked strong to me

[mrjonathanr]

Interesting site, thanks. You'll like this one Shark:

Many people try to apply aerobic training principles to climbing, but this is foolish. Rock climbing is not an endurance sport. “Yeah, but I breathe hard at the end of a long pitch,” you say. That’s just because recovery from anaerobic activity is aerobic. Climbing is a 100% stop and go sprint sport, and you’ve got to train for it that way. I’ll go so far as to say that aerobic training is a total waste of time for rock climbers. Please contact me if you can prove me wrong.

  from  here

[Stubbs]

Interesting site, thanks. You'll like this one Shark:

... I’ll go so far as to say that aerobic training is a total waste of time for rock climbers. Please contact me if you can prove me wrong.

  from  here

[Doylo]

Although every bit of climbing you’ll do contributes to this strength, there is a point at which the random loading of everyday climbing is no longer enough to stimulate progress. That’s when planned training becomes critical

take note 

[Tommy]

Interesting site, thanks. You'll like this one Shark:

Many people try to apply aerobic training principles to climbing, but this is foolish. Rock climbing is not an endurance sport. “Yeah, but I breathe hard at the end of a long pitch,” you say. That’s just because recovery from anaerobic activity is aerobic. Climbing is a 100% stop and go sprint sport, and you’ve got to train for it that way. I’ll go so far as to say that aerobic training is a total waste of time for rock climbers. Please contact me if you can prove me wrong.

  from  here

Ha! Interesting! I like how he uses the example of a V13 climber turning up to a crag and racking off a load of 5.13s...... I call that major under-performance.

Take climber 1 = V8 boulder who does no endurance climbing. Will roughly translate to about 7b/+ onsight and 8a redpointing.

Take climber 2 = V8 boulder who does lots of endurance training. Will roughly translate to 8a onsight and 8b+ redpoint.

I think I know who's the better route climber. He's like a couple of coaches that I know who spend their whole time saying you've just got be stronger - that's bullshit. You've got to be a balanced climber, with no weak links in the chain. You'll lie along a different part of the enduro-boulder spectrum according to what type of route you wish to perform on, and in which style.

 

[Tommy]

I like a lot of the other stuff on his site though - really good. I don't want to take away from that considering it is just one small point.

[Tommy]

Actually.......... having read a bit more.... Maybe he meant to say "Cardiovascular" ?? And not aerobic? As 3 sessions of 40-60 mins of constant climbing a week (in his example) is pretty aerobic, I'm going to go with it being a lost in translation example.

[petejh]

Ha! Interesting! I like how he uses the example of a V13 climber turning up to a crag and racking off a load of 5.13s...... I call that major under-performance.

Agree with most of that, but I think the important point to take from that example is how easy it is to gain anaerobic-fitness compared to gaining strength, and that if you've got a good strength level it isn't as big a transition for a high-level boulderer to climb hard sport routes than it would be for a relatively weak boulderer to achieve success on hard bouldering. I don't think that your 8b red-pointing / but 'only' V8 bouldering example would find success on a V13 as achievable as the boulderer coming at it from the other direction. Also, if sport routes up to about 20 metres are your goal, training 'low-level aerobic endurance' is a waste of time relative to what else you could be doing.

It was interesting listening to Chris Webb-Parsons talk about how he'd been training when I asked him after watching his flash destruction of The Brute on the diamond this summer. The Brute's an 8b pure PE route. He had strong boulderer's strength, obviously, but had just spent a couple of months nailing lots of PE training on bouldering circuits to train for the World Cups where, according to him, recovery between attempts was key. To put how strong he looked on The Brute into context: he was in a completely different league to watching Pete, Caff, Jordan, Dyer et al on the same route - as Pete was the first to say. Basically he made our best climbers look fairly average on that style of route.

[Tommy]

Absolutely - I totally agree. CWP knows his training!

[abarro81]

He told me his run of form in the summer was down to dieting into hardcore anorexia and losing 10kgs briefly... that's some willpower!

[Doylo]

He crashed soon after the Brute though, is the problem with hardcore dieting. Short term fix...

[mrjonathanr]

He told me his run of form in the summer was down to dieting into hardcore anorexia and losing 10kgs briefly... that's some willpower!

 

[TobyD]

Climbing is a 100% stop and go sprint sport, and you’ve got to train for it that way. I’ll go so far as to say that aerobic training is a total waste of time for rock climbers. Please contact me if you can prove me wrong.

  from  here

Ha! Interesting! I like how he uses the example of a V13 climber turning up to a crag and racking off a load of 5.13s...... I call that major under-performance.
Take climber 1 = V8 boulder who does no endurance climbing. Will roughly translate to about 7b/+ onsight and 8a redpointing.
Take climber 2 = V8 boulder who does lots of endurance training. Will roughly translate to 8a onsight and 8b+ redpoint.
I think I know who's the better route climber. He's like a couple of coaches that I know who spend their whole time saying you've just got be stronger - that's bullshit. You've got to be a balanced climber, with no weak links in the chain. You'll lie along a different part of the enduro-boulder spectrum according to what type of route you wish to perform on, and in which style.
[/quote]

Indeed. Specificity is key, but by his dictum, you would never do intervals, or max hangs, or volume - only replica of the aero / anaerobic pattern of muscle contractions which mirrored your objective as closely as possible. While i can see value in a certain amount of this, surely the massive success of fartlek (and adapted forms) of training rather proves the limitations of this sort of strategy?
I think that your point is key really Tommy, you are only as strong (in an all round climbing sense) as your weakest facet - law of limiting factors, innit.