Artificial holds would indicate chipped/added not reinforced.
Action Direct used to be an easier project that finished out right but the pockets were cemented up to force the direct route
t has a hold made entirely out of sika, without which it would be a shit one move wonder at 8b+ or whatever, but as it is it's a brilliant 8a.
Quote from: i_a_coops on December 11, 2012, 08:56:27 amt has a hold made entirely out of sika, without which it would be a shit one move wonder at 8b+ or whatever, but as it is it's a brilliant 8a. This does seem to be a very weak argument - why not add two holds to make a 7c, or make the hold a bit bigger to make it a 7c+?
Admittedly you can use the same line or reasoning to promote manufacturing every single hold on an otherwise blank bit of rock, which I think is equally silly to saying that objecting to sika and the odd manufactured hold implies objection to all bolting, cleaning of loose rock, gardening etc. on FAs.
Quote from: i_a_coops on December 11, 2012, 08:56:27 amt has a hold made entirely out of sika, without which it would be a shit one move wonder at 8b+ or whatever, but as it is it's a brilliant 8a. I guess the other end of the spectrum is a crag like Buoux, where Ron describes developing new routes by hammering through thin areas of limestone with dissolution pockets behind to make new routes.
Things like the totally stunning 7a Le Vieil Homme Est Amer might well have been a completely natural and equally stunning 7c without the blatantly drilled out pockets:
A hell of a lot of the routes at Buoux have some form of manufatured holds on them. I must admit I was a bit disappointed when I looked in the crossthrough pockets of The Rose and saw they were completely drilled but at the time it was done, this was the norm and it was a cutting edge route so "minor imporvements" to holds to change something from impossible to possible were seen as being fine.
Have you seen footage of sharma knocking seven bells out of routes with a crowbar?
Quote from: Jaspersharpe on December 11, 2012, 10:28:48 amA hell of a lot of the routes at Buoux have some form of manufatured holds on them. I must admit I was a bit disappointed when I looked in the crossthrough pockets of The Rose and saw they were completely drilled but at the time it was done, this was the norm and it was a cutting edge route so "minor imporvements" to holds to change something from impossible to possible were seen as being fine.referring to the Rose as Minor Improvements seems to be a 'tad' of an understatement. The entire sequence from start until after the cross has the mark of a drill-bit. Having said that (and probably to Johnnys disgust), it IS a masterpiece of manufacturing.
Of which video do you speak oh great commentator of our noble past time?Ah the world is never black of white but is eternally shrouded in grey, lets see if we can put these points in the 'OK' or 'Not OK' category:- Drilling bolts at sport crags within whatever guidelines may apply at that particular crag
- Knocking of loose holds on new routes
- Knocking of holds that aren't loose to make your new route harder
- stabilising a hold to make your new route climbable
- drilling/chipping holds on your new route.
Are you being serious? Ask me the same questions when you've finished school
Lund I'm in no way politically correct but is the use of "gay" as a derogatory term really necessary? It's 2012 and it seems a bit seventies offensive these days even to me, now then now then.
Nowhere did I say that drilling a climb down to a certain level is a good thing because it lets more people enjoy it.To be devil's advocate, how is your argument any different to saying that that route would be a cutting edge E10 and therefore we shouldn't bolt it so that lots of 7b climbers could enjoy it?My original example (the CS) wouldn't have a brilliant hard boulder problem in the middle of it, it would have some horrible boning the life out of some scrittle.
to make a similar example concerning bolts, i'd refer to "semi-trad" multipitch granite routes in the alps.
A small bolt-on hold would be an honest and reversible solution of sorts I guess . Would have to be a properly amazing route to be worth taking the shit you'd get for it though!
So, should I drill one small crimp to create what will honestly be one of the best long 7b+'s around, or leave it as it is
Quote from: Bonjoy on December 12, 2012, 01:30:53 pmA small bolt-on hold would be an honest and reversible solution of sorts I guess . Would have to be a properly amazing route to be worth taking the shit you'd get for it though!Yeah for me there's two main concerns - firstly I'd get loads of shit from people, secondly I'd then have a reputation for chipping. Once you've done it once any new route thereafter might have people wondering if it's chipped.In theory I don't have too much of a problem with chipped routes - as long as it's very good and as long as it's someone else taking the shit for it! In a perfect world it wouldn't happen...
I would have to say leave it as well, some folk actually enjoy "6c crimping on crozzles". Bonjoys example of Free Monster is a bit different as I can't really understand why the aritificial hold was put where it was. That bit isn't even the crux and the move is a cool one which is not that hard in my opinion. Anyone know the reason?