I wasn't ranting in people's faces about it (like I am now) but I did say a long time ago that the obvious solution was to use split grades for the Cave. All that has happened since then is that my opinion has hardened.
DoyloSpot on, Kings of Sontero. Didn't realise it had got that grade, in the video it looked easy with the knee pad
"To me it's as simple as that. You like pads, you use pads. You don't like them, you don't use them. Am I being too trivial?" - Nibile
"This is about Bouldering, in the UK." - Jack.G
"certainly if someone fashioned a rubber hook on a kneepad I doubt people would be so keen to embrace change" - Paul B
With the tor, bens roof has been kept at 7c+ has it not...
...how many people have took a reduced grade for Mecca while wearing pads? If they don't help why would ned ave chosen to put the kneepad in n posed giving 2thumbs up for the camera while laughing for about half an hr.
Quote from: Pantontino on November 28, 2012, 04:57:49 pmI wasn't ranting in people's faces about it (like I am now) but I did say a long time ago that the obvious solution was to use split grades for the Cave. All that has happened since then is that my opinion has hardened.Hardened to what? Just using split grades in the cave would be fine if that's what you want to do. Especially as this is a bit different to simple eliminates and more akin to making the cave problems really morpho. It's all this talk about knee bars being 'bad style' (i.e dissaproved of), and saying folk are 'kidding themselves' when they've kidded nobody and have video evidence and saying the cave has been 'ruined' that seems weird to us pro-padders.
I'm resisting the temptation to argue with you further (especially as you didn't have the good grace to accept that Alex bringing up WOL was an own goal - it still is an own goal that seriously undermines the credibility of your stance in this debate, by the way.)...
Or another solution to the problem is just to forget this ludicrous notion of "taking" a grade. You don't take a grade, you climb a problem. We don't grade ascents, we grade problems for the easiest method.
Hence if I go out and climb a 7b in terrible conditions, I don't "take" a 7c, what I did was a 7b in bad nick. Similarly if go and solo a geared E1 I don't "take" an E3", I just soloed an E1.Kneepars aren't going to disappear so just fucking deal with it. If you do a problem graded at 7c assuming a kneepad, but you don't have one okr don't want to use one, then suck it in, you've just done a 7c, you're not "taking" an 8a, just enjoy your climbing, nobody is handing medals out. Tough shit if you found it harder. Similary if you find a kneebar on and 8a and it feels 7b+ then good on you, you know how hard it was for you.
so the kneepads thing is more than just a fashion issue for some people?
Oh yes it is. If a knee hold isn't useful without a pad then you are effectively eliminating it. Like if you force people to wear socks instead of rockshoes you would be effectively eliminating a lot of footholds.
Quote from: dave on November 28, 2012, 06:40:10 pmOr another solution to the problem is just to forget this ludicrous notion of "taking" a grade. You don't take a grade, you climb a problem. We don't grade ascents, we grade problems for the easiest method. + 1 million.
I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm trying to understand if you think the use of pads is just an administrative headache for guideboook writers or if you really believe that people "shouldn't" climb with pads. ..My point is that using kneepads is as fine as any other piece of kit, that most of the world sees things this way and that in time it'll be the norm, so you might as well accept it. I've never argued that doing so is pain free, or universally accepted.
My beef here wil be that ascents are graded for knee pads, that is not how most people climb. ...They are not an everyday piece of equipment as some people would have me believing.