[Jaspersharpe]

Being the cave it would be amusing if the footholds necessary for the various kneebars now fell off.

[nodder]

It would then we would all have to go back to the original TC sequence pre kneebar and pre egyption. 

[andy_e]

Surely using an egyptian is cheating? It's lowering the problem to your level by using technique!

[a dense loner]

It's not buying a big rubber pad and strapping it to your leg tho is it? That's the point

Sorry jasper, the knee is located approx halfway down the leg, sorry these are the unused stumps below the waist

[andy_e]

That's true, I guess it's hard to get the egyptian in in hobnail boots.

[a dense loner]

Good comeback. See earlier posts referring to most people on the planet wearing shoes while the only people that wear knee pads are plumbers, joiners n sparkys.
People can, and do, wear pads all they want the actual point is most people don't and things should be graded accordingly. If a new prob is put up n it's state of the art, like dan says that might be the way it goes a marginal kneebar here n there, n the only way to climb it maybe using said pads then just say that it was done using knee pads. It's not a big deal if people know what they're dealing with

[Paul B]

Tor locals might like to do ben's roof using the original line but no-one would expect anyone other than the local devotees to use the right hand exit nowadays)

Brilliant, how many ascents has Superman now then had and at what grade?

[andy_e]

It's not a big deal

[Stubbs]

Knowing that Dense won't take your ascents seriously if you wear them should be enough to keep most folk away from kneepads...

[Jack.G]

my bad, stupid post

[a dense loner]

Brilliant let's get a few idiots (out of defference to slackers) and quote 5 words out of context, then point out a few more subsets that wear pads. Genius stay with the discussion guys, wouldn't want to miss your input

[andy_e]

a few idiots ... wear pads.

So do you support the wearing of pads or not? Or do you prefer tampons?

[lagerstarfish]

is technique a substitute for power nowadays?

[abarro81]

Tor locals might like to do ben's roof using the original line but no-one would expect anyone other than the local devotees to use the right hand exit nowadays)

Brilliant, how many ascents has Superman now then had and at what grade?

What's your point? That eliminates exist? That visitors will come and climb that bit of rock in the logical manner? That the locals will get indignant about it?
Nice example actually - Nacho comes, climbs the obvious thing and then it turns out to be wrong. This is just one reason why - in my opinion - eliminates are generally more shit than things which aren't eliminate. Yup, you heard right, superman is more shit than superwoman. Take that crag x bitches. Superwoman is the real problem there and superman is a nice historical eliminate for strong/bored locals (and the odd foreigner who's very strong and bored or has a particular liking for UK history) to test themselves on.I already said we should rename Director's Slut and Greentart in a superman/superwoman style.

Does anyone fuss about the different exits to BR?

P.S. I have no idea where we're going any more, we're certainly not really on pads any more

[abarro81]

is technique a substitute for power nowadays?

No rubber is.

[slackline]

Brilliant let's get a few idiots (out of defference to slackers)

Cheers 

[nodder]

Eliminating equipment isn't quite the same as eliminating holds though is it?

[Wood FT]

Tor locals might like to do ben's roof using the original line but no-one would expect anyone other than the local devotees to use the right hand exit nowadays)

Brilliant, how many ascents has Superman now then had and at what grade?

P.S. I have no idea where we're going any more, we're certainly not really on pads any more

They are all discussing how much they hate you under the thin veil of something about pads

[Nigel]

Can I just say what a joy it is to have Dense back, I would have lost interest in this thread ages ago otherwise.

[Bonjoy]

With the tor, bens roof has been kept at 7c+ has it not, to quote Ben the other month upon seeing someone trying it with a kneepad "interesting what grade does it get like that, about 7b" how many people have took a reduced grade for Mecca while wearing pads? If they don't help why would ned ave chosen to put the kneepad in n posed giving 2thumbs up for the camera while laughing for about half an hr.

This is an argument for regrading those climbs and others that are made sufficiently easier to require it. I think all pad proponents would agree with you on this principle.
I don't think anyone is actually saying that kneebars (with a decent pad) don't make things easier, sometimes to the point of lowering a grade. You seem to be the one saying that grades shouldn't change to reflect this.

Pads are all very well but not everyone chooses to use them. This is not the same as choosing not to wear shoes or use chalk.

Why is it?
I assume you mean because, up until the present, kneepads were not standard kit. This is EXACTLY the same as for all other previous innovations such as recent boot designs like downturned soles and boots with rubber on the top. Initially they are a rarity, over time they become everday.
 

Saying everybody can use them n make new grades up based on knee pads alone is a bit missing the point?

Missing which point?
As you pointed out, if grades don't reflect pad use, then people will flock to the shop to get themselves a pad and then queue up to repeat the soft touch. Mecca being a case in point.



Trying to segregate ascents into with/without pad and giving them separate grades is an understandable compromise, but will open up a whole can of worms with regard to what is/isn't a pad, and create potential for all sorts of covert cheating (pad worn under trousers for instance).

[a dense loner]

I fuckin hate barrows n all he stands for, now quickly someone pass me my new pads

[a dense loner]

It's not schrodingers pad Jon, it's still a bloody pad.

[shark]

With the tor, bens roof has been kept at 7c+ has it not, to quote Ben the other month upon seeing someone trying it with a kneepad "interesting what grade does it get like that, about 7b" how many people have took a reduced grade for Mecca while wearing pads? If they don't help why would ned ave chosen to put the kneepad in n posed giving 2thumbs up for the camera while laughing for about half an hr.

That was probably Threenine doing Bens Roof and he took 7B+ on 8a.nu but said it felt more like 7B

[abarro81]

RE: Mecca grade - I've never really tried it without a pad since I'd been given one of the Cava ones before I ever tried it, thus I have no idea how much of a different a pad makes for me on that. I gave it 8b+ 'cos it felt like 8b+ to me. I had been spending a lot of time in Europe before that though so who knows where my grade scale was (is) at.

Can I put stealth paint on my jeans like some people do on the top of shoes then go back for the 8B on directum's smut? Psyched. My scorecard needs more points.

[Bonjoy]

Eliminating equipment isn't quite the same as eliminating holds though is it?

Eliminating pads is just eliminating knee holds by another name.