[tim palmer]

(How has this run to 4 pages?!?)

i think, in part, because people keep posting things like this.  I don't understand why people keep posting to say what a terrible thread it is, if you find it annoying don't read it, exercise your free will!

I agree with dan in part, but bouldering is a pretty pointless sport full of stupid rules, stupid discussions and artificially drawn grey lines (like when is a dab a dab?).  This is particularly true in the UK because (as dan has so repeatedly said) there is relatively little rock suitable for hard bouldering, especially for those who do not have large amounts of free time, so i think it maybe worthwhile to try and retain, albeit slightly artificially, some of the good, difficult problems (again dan I acknowledge your contempt for the place so you can ignore the "good"). 

Anyway as everyone seems to be driven by some sick compulsion to read something so they can say it is terrible and pointless I will say no more. 

[tomtom]

I'm amazed its run to 4 pages without being hijacked!

Very un-UKB.

[andy_e]

We had the bad puns on the first page! I can't believe it's now run to 5 pages. Can we have another page of people being in disbelief?

[ali k]

I'm in disbelief 

[Jack.G]

Wow!

Thanks for all the productive and valuable feedback related to my previous posts, call-it education of a punter, though to be honest, I dont really feel that there has been substantial enough to change my views.

I dont think it warrants the Log Pile, there is some good stuff here if you filter through the shite.

There seems to be an issue grading within the Cave, and as I was interested in the overall impact, this is slightly    feel free to start another thread to stop cluttering this one.

Page 5 now by the way.

[shark]

Good thread, good views.

As to those who can't believe its run to x pages, log etc etc you are in effect saying that the strongly held views which have been expressed are trivial. Maybe trivial to you, but respect that its important to others and give them space.

   

[Rocksteady]

For me this thread just shows that what climbing is 'about' is totally different for different people.

One man's obvious power-endurance challenge is another man's route-training playground.

Some people think kneebars look rubbish and disdain to use them, some people think they're cool and seek them out. As I see it, a bit of rubber on the knee helps the latter set of people, and makes no difference to the former set of people.

If all the worry is about 'the grade' then I've never understood why people get annoyed if people find an easier way to climb up something they've also climbed. If it gets downgraded then you climbed one problem that it turns out some people find easier than you found it. That doesn't trivialise your achievement, does it?

[rodma]

when is a dab a dab?

Always Tim, always, like you even have to ask 

[slackline]

Page 5 now by the way.

Only on Page 3 here (its a setting individuals can customise in terms of number of posts/page).

[carlisle slapper]

It is a shame seeing classics getting Knee'd in, I'd agree directors is a classic of the country, Taz and Malc exchanging goes, Taz's finest hour, world class if you shut your eyes (great quote). Barrows walking upside down along it does kill its cachet somewhat. But i dont think we can fight the slide into technical faggotry if the angles are there. The trouble with kneebars is that the weak are embracing them more than the strong at the moment and its upsetting the ether. Kneebars are cool, look at all these cool guys using them. Barrows you're cramping their style!

[Stu Littlefair]

Good thread, good views.

As to those who can't believe its run to x pages, log etc etc you are in effect saying that the strongly held views which have been expressed are trivial. Maybe trivial to you, but respect that its important to others and give them space.

Now you're putting words in our mouths. I for one am not saying they are trivial views. I'm certain they are strongly felt emotional responses. Benchmark boulder problems are strong characters in our life, representing ambitions and dreams, as well as signposts by which we navigate our own development and the history of the game. Kneebars are agents of change, and change makes people feel unhappy and uncomfortable. For me one of my lifelong ambitions (directors cut) suddenly became less appealing when the kneebars were found. This was a sad day for me.

But one has to disentangle an emotional response from a full world view, which can only arise from an accomodation between our gut instincts and a logical analysis of the situation. Such an analysis has to be balanced and weigh up whether an opposition to kneepads is irrational, sustainable or indeed desirable.

It is clearly irrational; why are kneepads different to sticky boots, or chalk?

It is clearly unsustainable; to oppose kneepads is to show a blindness to the history of climbing. Technological and technique developments have always been opposed, then grudgingly accepted, then embraced.

It is most likely undesirable; to adopt an opposition to kneepads is to end up in a situation where problems have arbritrary and unsatisfying rules. We had the same problems when people complained about heel hooks, or better sequences in general. The response to this in the 90s was to assert that most problems were eliminates, that heel-hooking was 'out'. Most of us had direct experience of how well this 'worked'.

So I don't accuse anyone of triviality; I only suggest they are letting their emotions hold sway and suggesting a point of view that sober consideration would likely reveal as futile at best, and wrong-headed at worst.

[Doylo]

I'd agree directors is a classic of the country,

*Spits out hot chocolate* 

It is a shame in some ways, it really was so hardcore and such a big deal when Cassidy did it.  A real step up for power endurance problem in these parts - it was amazing to watch.  The only comparable thing i'd seen at the time was Zangeryl trying to do the first ascent of Unendlicte Geschite (sp) in Magic Wood and it blew me (us) away.  Then is subsequent years Robins, Dyer and Gaz all went through battles to repeat it and it was still  a big deal.  So that's why part of me is saddened but as i was the first person to stick a kneebar in on Trigger Cut i guess i've only got myself to blame!   

[fatneck]

Personally, I'm in shock because I never, ever thought I'd see the day Dave "Meatball" Deary was held up as a paragon of good style...

Sheesh..

[turnipturned]

i was the first person to stick a kneebar in on Trigger Cut i guess i've only got myself to blame! 

I think the cave has become a more socailly acceptable place with the development of Kneepads. At least Doylo doesnt stink of piss when he falls over in the piss hole changing into his Jeans with an old boot glue to them!

[abarro81]

Kneebars are cool, look at all these cool guys using them. Barrows you're cramping their style!

You saying I'm not cool? 
Too right kneebars are cool. I just wanna be like a weaker version of DG and Pringle.

[Doylo]

i was the first person to stick a kneebar in on Trigger Cut i guess i've only got myself to blame! 

I think the cave has become a more socailly acceptable place with the development of Kneepads. At least Doylo doesnt stink of piss when he falls over in the piss hole changing into his Jeans with an old boot glue to them!

Indeed. I've scared enough girls in there walking round in my boxers... Kneepads are so much more civilised.

[shark]

Good thread, good views.

As to those who can't believe its run to x pages, log etc etc you are in effect saying that the strongly held views which have been expressed are trivial. Maybe trivial to you, but respect that its important to others and give them space.

Now you're putting words in our mouths. I for one am not saying they are trivial views. ...... futile at best, and wrong-headed at worst.

 

Also when does this sober consideration take place ? Maybe during yoga for some, but the rest of us by having it out with your peer group at the crag, pub or on a thread.

I'm sure there are also some sober considering lurkers who will read the thread and make their minds up without comment.   

 

[turnipturned]

I just wanna be like a weaker version of DG

Surely that price goes to Newberry??

[Stu Littlefair]

You saying I'm not cool? 
Too right kneebars are cool. I just wanna be like a much, much, much, much, much weaker version of DG and Pringle.

See? Dreams can come true.

[Stu Littlefair]

Also when does this sober consideration take place ? Maybe during yoga for some, but the rest of us by having it out with your peer group at the crag, pub or on a thread.

I'm sure there are also some sober considering lurkers who will read the thread and make their minds up without comment.

I guess I'm just of the opinion that my blood pressure would be lower if people did their sober consideration before posting things on the internet.

[abarro81]

Dreams can come true
Look at me babe I'm better than Stu

[Duma]

I wonder what Hazel's dad thinks about kneepads?

[Doylo]

I wonder what Hazel's dad thinks about kneepads?

He says as long as you don't use chalk to put them on 

[Jack.G]

Stu, your main post if the most worthwile response yet, thank you.


How quickly did posts degenerate after that?

You are aware that there's a board called "shooting the shit", go f**k around on there. 

[Doylo]

You are aware that there's a board called "shooting the shit", go f**k around on there. 

You are aware there is a site called UKC, go f**k around there