[rich d]

Will we get less rain and midges if we're not linked to Scotland anymore? Could be a result.

[SA Chris]

Sadly no. The new super midgie repellant and new super betterthangoretextex will be major exports from Scotland though.

[tomtom]

Will we get less rain and midges if we're not linked to Scotland anymore? Could be a result.

Wettertogether...

[i.munro]

In a world of insincere politicians I find Alex Salmon the worst of the bunch. I have nothing other my gut feelings to back this up but he just seems to be a fat bloke out for himself.

Hmm. Slimey little git yes OTOH stupid and incompetent  aren't qualities I particularly value in a leader and he's currently making  Westminster politicians , despite all their advisors, look both.

[iain]

In a world of insincere politicians I find Alex Salmon the worst of the bunch. I have nothing other my gut feelings to back this up but he just seems to be a fat bloke out for himself.

This. Except it's gut feeling plus stuff like in the links I posted earlier in the thread. I can't stand him and I don't believe for one second that underneath all the socialist bluster he's got anyone's interests but his own at heart. And saying "oh but the referendum isn't just about him" is plainly bollocks as it will be him who negotiates the framework of the future of the country (and indeed the rest of the UK) given a Yes win.

Apparently it's extremely disrespectful to Scottish people to think this though (despite the fact that lots of them feel exactly the same way). 

Whatever happens short or long term the one guaranteed winner in this has been Salmond's ego.

The independence movement in Scotland isn't a vanity project, it has a long history. There would have been a Scottish parliament much earlier if the 79 referendum had been held under the same rules as 97 (albeit by a narrower margin). Salmond is just the current figurehead and whilst none of my family living there like him either they're all voting yes. Why would they do that if it was just to satisfy his ego?
You won't believe this but it's because it isn't just about him.

The no campaign might have had a lot more success if they'd focused on the positives of staying together rather than the it won't work, you won't manage. you won't have this/that any more approach.

Wettertogether...

[Oldmanmatt]

Let's keep it serious.

Dear Holly's advice.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/agony-aunt/my-other-half-is-begging-me-to-reconsider-2014091190476

[Jaspersharpe]

And even more importantly.....

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/scotland-joining-eurovision-would-be-very-difficult-for-everyone-2014021783678

[tomtom]

Link from Grubes via twitter

[Pantontino]

Whilst Salmon has driven the referendem agenda - if it is a yes vote - then a new Scottish parliament would have to be elected - so a yes votes doesnt mean he'll get in power...


He'd have to be one of the favourites - but a Scottish labour, without Westminster to drag them down - might become resurgent...

+1 for this. It might take a few years for the dust to settle but I doubt the nationalists will retain power for long. Alex Salmond will be irrelevant in the long run.

[SA Chris]

At one point there was talk of the SNP disbanding after the referendum if it's a Yes. I would have thought they would "hold power" until the first general election at least though.

[Pantontino]

Yes, you're right, it will at least go until the first or possibly second election, but after that I would imagine that the old allegiances would re-emerge or,  being more hopeful, the Greens might rise up. Or, if we are to believe the MSM commentators Scotland would become more right wing (I don't really buy this, although understand that Jasper will think I'm in denial of harsh economic facts).

Anyway, back to other 'make your mind up' factors for the undecided. Saw this earlier on Paul Mason's twitter page; a gift for the Yes team surely:

http://www.tatler.com/news/articles/september-2014/the-future-of-scotland

[Jaspersharpe]

Imagine if this happened though....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html

Lol.

[Jaspersharpe]

Or, if we are to believe the MSM commentators Scotland would become more right wing (I don't really buy this, although understand that Jasper will think I'm in denial of harsh economic facts).

There's no point in repeating myself ad infinitum when nobody has answered the first question I asked anyway!

Never mind being logical though, this is politics after all.

[Pantontino]

Imagine if this happened though....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html

Lol.

  I saw that earlier in the year. I guess a country could keep on fracturing forever into ever smaller units...

[Pantontino]

Or, if we are to believe the MSM commentators Scotland would become more right wing (I don't really buy this, although understand that Jasper will think I'm in denial of harsh economic facts).

There's no point in repeating myself ad infinitum when nobody has answered the first question I asked anyway!

Never mind being logical though, this is politics after all.

I thought the answer was that both sides would have to find a workable solution for both the short, medium and long term as it was in neither's interest for there to be chaos, uncertainty or a neighbouring country with a weak economy. (I'm guessing you were looking for a more specific answer, but I'm not an expert economist so that's the best I can do.  )

[tomtom]

the Media have been a total bunch of herd following f*ckwits so far though...

Yes gets ahead by 1% in one poll and all of a sudden....
Then
No goes back to 3 or 4% lead and all of a sudden its Yes campaign off the rails etc...

Good grief...

[Jaspersharpe]

Or, if we are to believe the MSM commentators Scotland would become more right wing (I don't really buy this, although understand that Jasper will think I'm in denial of harsh economic facts).

There's no point in repeating myself ad infinitum when nobody has answered the first question I asked anyway!

Never mind being logical though, this is politics after all.

I thought the answer was that both sides would have to find a workable solution for both the short, medium and long term as it was in neither's interest for there to be chaos, uncertainty or a neighbouring country with a weak economy. (I'm guessing you were looking for a more specific answer, but I'm not an expert economist so that's the best I can do.  )

*bashes head against wall*

It's not a question of chaos or uncertainty it's that all the grand plans of the Yes movement mean fuck all without the autonomy they need on spending etc. Nobody has actually answered the question of how this is achievable, probably because it isn't.

I'll shut up now because I'm boring myself but if people can't see that without the means to be truly independent the rest is just posturing and bullshit then I really do despair.

[Jaspersharpe]

the Media have been a total bunch of herd following f*ckwits so far though...

Yes gets ahead by 1% in one poll and all of a sudden....
Then
No goes back to 3 or 4% lead and all of a sudden its Yes campaign off the rails etc...

Good grief...

Business as usual then.

[Jaspersharpe]

Shamelessly harvested from Twitter, this is well worth a read....

http://pme2013.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/an-independent-scotland.html?m=1

[Johnny Brown]

all the grand plans of the Yes movement mean fuck all without the autonomy they need on spending etc

I suspect we might get a grand gesture of Scotland leaving the UK whilst functionally remaining far closer to the status quo than they would like to admit. Which will allow the Scots to have their cake and eat it; gain independence but still be able to blame London for all their problems. Ideal.

[drdeath]

[Duma]

Shamelessly harvested from Twitter, this is well worth a read....

http://pme2013.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/an-independent-scotland.html?m=1

That's really good, thanks.
I particularly liked this bit:
"Those wanting everything to remain as it is, absent Westminster's control, may get a rude awakening in the first few months of iScotland.  That might come when they realise they are part of a country with a foreign, Tory run neighbour that is feeling rather bruised by its rejection, and isn't terribly generous or well-disposed to allowing use of its governmental agencies, for example.  Time will tell. "

[Johnny Brown]

^+1

I think the SNP are in cloud cuckoo land if they think Westminster are going to roll over and offer some favourable currency union deal and the use of the DVLA etc. Either that or they don't actually want independence. Surely it's join the Euro or stay in the Uk?

[tc]

A different take on the feudal land ownership issue here. More fuel for the fire.

http://www.monbiot.com/2014/05/19/highland-spring/

[GazM]

A different take on the feudal land ownership issue here. More fuel for the fire.

http://www.monbiot.com/2014/05/19/highland-spring/

I do like a bit of Monbiot idealism and couldn't agree more with most of what he says about land management (I've been an ecologist working in the Highlands for the last 7 years, so have seen the evidence), but is there any serious appetite for land reform in any future government, independant or not?