[SA Chris]

Offshore oil will get more expensive to extract before too long according to a Norwegian oil-worker friend of mine. And the fields are much bigger on their side.

Well yes and no. In some instances it is getting more expensive to extract, but more fields are still being discovered and technology for extraction is being improved on a daily basis; wells previously shut down for being uneconomical are being reopened by specialist companies and producing again. But yes N Sea oil has a finite life, as does oil anywhere in the world?

[Jaspersharpe]

You did that on purpose you dick.

[mrjonathanr]

But yes N Sea oil has a finite life, as does oil anywhere in the world?

If I were entitled to vote in a referendum about Scotland I'd be more focused on just how finite Scottish oil revenues are vs 'oil anywhere in the world'.

[SA Chris]

If you could put a a firm answer to that you would be a very rich man. Estimates vary wildly and cards are kept very close to the chest regarding discoveries. If you want an interesting read, get hold of Al Alvarez's "Offshore", and read the section about the geologist who was involved in the discovery of the Forties Field and how he couldn't breath a word about it to anyone while the bidding process for the exploration rights were underway, and realise why these things are kept closely guarded secrets.

[SA Chris]

You did that on purpose you dick.

Me? Did what?

[tomtom]

what do you think the arabs are doing in Manchester?

Enjoying the rain

[rich d]

Sounds severely messy
Some questions that would need to be sorted before the referendum
Will there be a separate armed forces? Will Scotland have to join Nato? Will it automatically become a part of the EU?
If Scotland can't after independance set it's own fiscal policy then surely it's better with it's current level of UKness where at least uni fees, prescriptions, sight tests etc are all paid for unlike South of the border. 

[tomtom]

FUCK.

Most importantly, would UKB have to be re-branded?

[galpinos]

Will it automatically become a part of the EU?

I'm pretty sure this is a no, and they wouldn't necessarily be allowed into the Euro, if they decided they wanted in. However, if the "Union" breaks up, I believe England (or whatever we'd be called after the skirt wearers had buggered off) would also have to re-apply for EU membership.

[magpie]

My understanding of it is that if we become independent they'll be the first things to go, no more free prescriptions, no more cheap uni fees, all the benefits we currently have from being Scotland as part of the UK will go to try and pay for independence. 

Interesting - can you point me in the rough direction where you heard this? That would be the final nail in the coffin for me.

In short no.    It came about in a chat I had with a group of people in the pub, it was a very believable argument though and made sense at the time.  I think basically it's to do with Scotland being in part supported and subsidised by London, without that support we'd need to take care of ourselves and there simply isn't enough tax money to allow all the benefits we currently have.  Obviously this would be a much better argument if I had any links or proper info to back it up. 

As an English person living in Scotland, I have been sworn at and abused for being English. This narrow minded bullying is only being fuelled by the arguments which are going on at the moment.

I find this a bit ridiculous, it's not ground breaking news there are some idiot who also happen to be Scottish but I think judging an entire nation based on a few is a bit silly, people who are going to swear at you and abuse you for being English are going to do it regardless of whether the subject of independence is up for discussion, because they're tools and will always find an excuse for their behaviour. 

On the other hand one of my major fears for the vote is that the minority who are anti-English and, as my friend so concisely put it 'like big Braveheart cunts' will be the ones who care enough to vote, but will do so without realising where a yes vote might leave us.

I need to read up more, I hadn't even considered the fact we'd need to go to Euros if we left the UK. 

[SA Chris]

I've never had a bad word said against me since living here (outside of a bit lot of banter) but I guess it's probably because I'm such an affable fucker.

[i.munro]

Ref the Barnett formula from moose I'm sure I saw somewhere a paper that said what came back to Scotland through the Barnett formula pretty much matched what went the other way through oil revenues.


(from another opinionated non-economist who likes to read)

It's not just about that though. Firstly the Uk govt has most of it's big institutions in England ( whitehall, sandhurst etc) so funding those acts to funnel UK (ie inc Scottish) tax  money into the English economy. Secondly UK politician's sad imperial delusions tend to result in expensive stuff like Afghan wars & pointless nuclear deterrents that Scotland would no longer need to pay for.  It's complicated 

[battery]

As an English person living in Scotland, I have been sworn at and abused for being English. This narrow minded bullying is only being fuelled by the arguments which are going on at the moment.

I find this a bit ridiculous, it's not ground breaking news there are some idiot who also happen to be Scottish but I think judging an entire nation based on a few is a bit silly, people who are going to swear at you and abuse you for being English are going to do it regardless of whether the subject of independence is up for discussion, because they're tools and will always find an excuse for their behaviour. 

I don't think I in any way tarred all with the same brush in my post. I simply pointed out those idiots that do have anti English tendencies will be buoyed by the campaign.

[tomtom]

It's a funny one... Being from the saaarf of England I have been remorselessly piss ripped for being a cockney wanker etc.. all the time I've lived in Yorkshire. But when I moved to deepest Mid Wales for 7 years, I was 'only English' and received much less stick...

[moose]

On the other hand, perhaps there are economies of scale with having a shared facilities.  Would independence necessitate re-inventing large parts of the civil service, NHS, HMRC, DSS etc from scratch - or at least replacing any top-level functions currently done in England? If so, it might be pricey. 

That said, a remodeled governmental apparatus might feasibly be more streamlined and efficient - rid of a legacy of decades of inefficient accretions and piecemeal "innovations".  It's like every-time I go to an airport, I wonder if, given a fresh start, would a ground-up redesign of the system of getting people on airplanes result in quite so much traipsing between long queues, clutching pieces of paper?!

[tomtom]

For my work area - we have the Environment Agency, Scotland has Sepa. The ea seem to be a buerocratic horror, whereas Sepa is a leaner more focused group that seems to operate far more efficiently and better.

[Jaspersharpe]

That said, a remodeled governmental apparatus might feasibly be more streamlined and efficient - rid of a legacy of decades of inefficient accretions and piecemeal "innovations".  It's like every-time I go to an airport, I wonder if, given a fresh start, would a ground-up redesign of the system of getting people on airplanes result in quite so much traipsing between long queues, clutching pieces of paper?!

Nice in theory but this is government so it wouldn't work like that would it. Here moose you dropped these mate.....



 

[tomtom]

Don't worry folks, "big society" will fix everything...

[Falling Down]

I wouldnt want to live in a small country who's entire economy was pegged to the oil price.  Look at how Qatar, Abu Dahbi etc are desperately trying to diversify and they've got much larger hydrocarbon resources than "Scotland" has.

I suppose it's easy for me to say but the United Kingdom has a lot more going for it than an England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland would have if we were all independent.

[Stewart]

I wouldnt want to live in a small country who's entire economy was pegged to the oil price.

That's why Salmond is focussing massively on the renewables market. If efficient wave and tidal power generators can be developed - which they will be (and there are huge developmental grants from the Scottish government and EU available and many ongoing trials to achieve this) - Scotland has access to around 25% of the total EU potential.

Personally, I'd be happy to stay in the UK but with huge changes to the current democratic setup which is ridiculous. England and Wales should have their own devolved government (or whatever) and Westminster should only be dealing with issues which affect the UK as a whole. The West Lothian question has never been answered.

[AndyR]

I wouldnt want to live in a small country who's entire economy was pegged to the oil price.

That's why Salmond is focussing massively on the renewables market. If efficient wave and tidal power generators can be developed - which they will be (and there are huge developmental grants from the Scottish government and EU available and many ongoing trials to achieve this) - Scotland has access to around 25% of the total EU potential.

Wave and tidal? Really? I can't imagine trying to support a country's economic development on a technology that hasn't got beyond pilot scale for >20 years...

[tomtom]

Lots of economic, political and nimby reasons for that...

[BB]

Would all the Scots in the English Parliament get turfed out?

[Jaspersharpe]

Would all the Scots in the English Parliament get turfed out?

If it means George Galloway gets kicked out then I'm coming round to the idea.

[magpie]

I don't think I in any way tarred all with the same brush in my post. I simply pointed out those idiots that do have anti English tendencies will be buoyed by the campaign.

And I simply pointed out that wankers like that will find an excuse regardless of what else is going on, in my opinion, I really can't imagine that without the possibility of independence they would be any different.