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The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day (Read 41591 times)

Fiend

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Will give that a try.

Falling Down

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Thanks for sharing that Pete.  There was a Grauniad article over the weekend covering similar ground - it will be good to see more research being conducted.

Oldmanmatt

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Interesting.
Anyone beat me to a non-paywalled version, post it up please!
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2680311

Shit the bed! I beat myself (Phnar, phnar)...

https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/2018-gordon.pdf

DAVETHOMAS90

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Possibly off current topic, if not thread.

I want to try to emphasise the difference between distress and psychological "ill health".

I'm worried that too much emphasis on mental health" makes it (distress) a "thing", something that can be pointed at and labeled, but not felt.

It's the capacity to feel, empathise and share distress too, which allows us to connect and be with, in a way that diagnoses and names separate.


mrjonathanr

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Categorisation can create distance- good observation Dave.

I think distress in distressing situations in a sign of normal adjustment. Its when that distress is not a reasonable response to the external environment, or it is but is severe enough that someone can no longer cope, that Id be thinking in terms of mental ill health.

Andy F

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I'm struggling. Sorry.

DAVETHOMAS90

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Hi Andy.

Just sent you a pm.

Dave.

DAVETHOMAS90

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Hi Folks.

Anyone been in touch with Andy?

Oldmanmatt

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Hi Folks.

Anyone been in touch with Andy?
No, but he logged into the forum at 8 am this morning.

Andy, pretty sure you could PM any of us and wed do anything we could.

Andy F

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Hi folks, thanks for the concerns. I was 'having a moment' and just needed to shout out rather than bottle it up. Dave, sorry I didn't reply to the PM, only saw it late last night and was out climbing early this morning. Which was good and helped (as it always does).

DAVETHOMAS90

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Great to hear from you Andy!

 :thumbsup:

Anytime, btw.

SA Chris

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Keep with it Andy.

Fiend

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Well done for getting out at all, glad it helped.

Fiend

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Have been meaning to mention this for a little while. Recently finished reading The Inflamed Mind: https://shortbooks.co.uk/book/the-inflamed-mind

Hey dude. I read the book. Fairly interesting despite somewhat repetitively hammering the point home. It is a sensible logical argument though. Interesting that the very existence of SSRIs self-defeats Cartesian duality.

Quote
The author doesn't actually make any mention of nutrition - probably because the science isn't there?

It was interesting discussing this with my partner in illness Lynne - she is very adamant about the importance of diet and lifestyle over medication. The vague conclusion / what now at the end of the book is very roughly "inflammation -> depression makes sense; anti-inflammatory medication should benefit depression, need to get anti-inflammatory medicine to be profitable in anti-depression terms, get more money into it, more testing, more refining, big pharma involved etc". Lynne's quote was "no no fucking no, avoid reliance on drugs, it should all be about nutrition". She may have a point although no doubt there is room for both.

There is a lot of information about anti-inflammatory foods although I'm not sure how much hard science is on the go.

tomtom

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Do you think the benefits of diet and exercise on mental health are (aside from physical benefits + endomorphine releases etc..) also that it empowers you - it provides you with with some form of control? Whether or not it actually helps - it makes you feel that you are controlling your physical state and mind? As opposed to medication that is (often) beyond your control?

(Please - Im way out of my depth here - so if this is blatant crap please ignore me.. and you is you as in one etc..)

Fiend

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Personally, no.

DAVETHOMAS90

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Do you think the benefits of diet and exercise on mental health are (aside from physical benefits + endomorphine releases etc..) also that it empowers you - it provides you with with some form of control? Whether or not it actually helps - it makes you feel that you are controlling your physical state and mind? As opposed to medication that is (often) beyond your control?

(Please - I’m way out of my depth here - so if this is blatant crap please ignore me.. and you is you as in one etc..)

TT, it's something I've used in that way a lot; the sense of something coming from within, rather than prescribed/external.

For me, it helps offset many things, provides a focus, and emphasises action.

I'm a firm believer that mental health is something that we do, rather than "have" - though life situations can make this really difficult, or present us with challenges that feel really scary.

Oldmanmatt

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Do you think the benefits of diet and exercise on mental health are (aside from physical benefits + endomorphine releases etc..) also that it empowers you - it provides you with with some form of control? Whether or not it actually helps - it makes you feel that you are controlling your physical state and mind? As opposed to medication that is (often) beyond your control?

(Please - Im way out of my depth here - so if this is blatant crap please ignore me.. and you is you as in one etc..)
I think I use exercise exactly like that. Particularly climbing, diving and tabbing/yomping.
Usually, alone.

Edit:
Being on drugs bothers me not a Jot.
Just another tool in my box of tricks. Always figured the stigma is just white noise from the ignorant.

tommytwotone

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Do you think the benefits of diet and exercise on mental health are (aside from physical benefits + endomorphine releases etc..) also that it empowers you - it provides you with with some form of control? Whether or not it actually helps - it makes you feel that you are controlling your physical state and mind? As opposed to medication that is (often) beyond your control?

(Please - Im way out of my depth here - so if this is blatant crap please ignore me.. and you is you as in one etc..)

TT, it's something I've used in that way a lot; the sense of something coming from within, rather than prescribed/external.

For me, it helps offset many things, provides a focus, and emphasises action.


Forgive the poorly remembered BSc Psychology fooder here but...

As well as any neurochemical benefit (of which I think there definitely is) the other element to this could be that exercise provides a good way of regaining a feeling of self-mastery over one's life / situation - as the lack of it (or perceived lack of it) has been found to be a contributing factor in depression.

In that respect, I've found climbing a double-edged sword. A good session can definitely improve my general outlook, but a bad / frustrating session can leave me more down than when I started.

For me, that's where something more mechanical - be it running, gym cardio, chucking weights about - is more effective, as I just have to turn up and do the work.





DAVETHOMAS90

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Andy, are you still with the current thread?

I've generally found classic trad a wholesome experience, and always when shared with a good friend.


TTT:

'In that respect, I've found climbing a double-edged sword. A good session can definitely improve my general outlook, but a bad / frustrating session can leave me more down than when I started."

In that way, I hear you! But just being at the crag is something I've found particularly therapeutic.

I've found that moving the emphasis from outcome to application has helped. Application is something I can always work on improving. As I get older it means I rest more too.

TTTT..  ;D

Oldmanmatt

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Actually, this bad day at the crag aspect, is why I prefer solo missions on such occasions.
Obviously, its a Bouldering or light soloing session (for me, anyway), but without an audience, Im never doing anything except working a problem, nothing is ever an attempt unless you actually finish it. If you feel shit, you just go off and finish easy things. If you want to take an hour out, lie on your mat, read a book and drink coffee, no ones going to moan. If you climb for ten minutes, decide you really cant be arsed and go for a run instead, no one gets their panties in a wad.

tomtom

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Actually, this bad day at the crag aspect, is why I prefer solo missions on such occasions.
Obviously, its a Bouldering or light soloing session (for me, anyway), but without an audience, Im never doing anything except working a problem, nothing is ever an attempt unless you actually finish it. If you feel shit, you just go off and finish easy things. If you want to take an hour out, lie on your mat, read a book and drink coffee, no ones going to moan. If you climb for ten minutes, decide you really cant be arsed and go for a run instead, no one gets their panties in a wad.

This.

tommytwotone

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I've generally found classic trad a wholesome experience, and always when shared with a good friend.


Yeah, same here - but at my current time of life / with family commitments it's hard enough to get out, let alone sort partners etc. I did enjoy a therapeutic evening soloing at Burbage recently.


I've found that moving the emphasis from outcome to application has helped. Application is something I can always work on improving. As I get older it means I rest more too.


+1 to that - thought I'm finding it easier said that done at the moment.

In my head I'm still the early 30s / non-parent version of myself that could train loads, get strong and climb 7a+, when in reality I'm lucky to scratch up at 6a+ nowadays.





cheque

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But just being at the crag is something I've found particularly therapeutic.

Me too. I used to get frustrated at myself for being so easily distracted from my performance but if my only interest in climbing was how good I am at it then I dont know how well Id be dealing with the recovery from my injury.

Johnny Brown

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Quote
Do you think the benefits of diet and exercise on mental health are...

My working theory has always been that depression is a symptom of living in a society which is wholly artificial and is largely estranged from the natural environment we and the rest of the animal kingdom evolved in. Broadly, the more time you can spend doing more natural things in a more natural setting the better, and vice versa the worse.

Climbing adds to that aspects of danger and required concentration that forcibly break negative thought patterns very reliably in my experience. Those times spent lying on my mat I often muse on how much 'work' primitive life would have required - remarks on expansive leisure time are very common in anthropological reports. In fact I find it quite hard to even imagine the freedom afforded by the twin birthrights of land access and survival knowledge that every animal in history had until we cashed ours in for the agricultural revolution.

I also think some key aspects of climbing culture are an expression of latent traits that evolved during the part (99%) of our history we spent as intelligent hunter gatherers. Acts like retracing ceremonial pathways laid down by larger-than-life ancestors are fairly universal in primitive societies, and often include real but 'unnecessary' challenges, particularly for initiations etc. This is probably all far from your mind when topping out on The Sloth, but the parallels seem pretty clear to me and may be a part of why some routes give such lasting satisfaction.