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The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day (Read 129099 times)

jimbob

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#50 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 26, 2013, 12:27:56 pm
Lithium sounds grim but am sure it can help some people. Feels like you dodged a bullet there by going down a different route. Diet, exercise and the right people around you are so important. I hope things continue in a good way for you; I thought your post was really honest, nice one.

Yeh - you might be right about the bullet dodging. I know that Lithium has helped many, many people with bi polar over the past several decades, and remains an anchor for some who can not find another way of living with their condition.  For now, I am determined to use food as my medicine and not become dependent on powerful meds.  Thanks for the reply.

SA Chris

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#51 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 26, 2013, 01:59:51 pm
Not sure what else I can say other than good luck with the struggle, and keep on fighting. The sun always rises on another day........

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#52 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 26, 2013, 07:45:26 pm
Lithium sounds grim but am sure it can help some people. Feels like you dodged a bullet there by going down a different route. Diet, exercise and the right people around you are so important. I hope things continue in a good way for you; I thought your post was really honest, nice one.

Yeh - you might be right about the bullet dodging. I know that Lithium has helped many, many people with bi polar over the past several decades, and remains an anchor for some who can not find another way of living with their condition.  For now, I am determined to use food as my medicine and not become dependent on powerful meds.  Thanks for the reply.

My experience  tells me that this may end in tears. If your illness lands you in hospital I very much doubt diet alone will keep your mood stable, but that's your decision to make.
I hope I'm wrong for your sake.

shurt

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#53 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 26, 2013, 08:00:23 pm
Lithium sounds grim but am sure it can help some people. Feels like you dodged a bullet there by going down a different route. Diet, exercise and the right people around you are so important. I hope things continue in a good way for you; I thought your post was really honest, nice one.

Yeh - you might be right about the bullet dodging. I know that Lithium has helped many, many people with bi polar over the past several decades, and remains an anchor for some who can not find another way of living with their condition.  For now, I am determined to use food as my medicine and not become dependent on powerful meds.  Thanks for the reply.

My experience  tells me that this may end in tears. If your illness lands you in hospital I very much doubt diet alone will keep your mood stable, but that's your decision to make.
I hope I'm wrong for your sake.

I think that someone trying to not take drugs to get over mental health problems is to be applauded and supported (rather than saying it will all end in tears). In many cases its also a much harder road to go down but can be more sustainable in the long term and with less side effects. Facing up to your own behavior that could be contributing to your condition and making changes is incredibly difficult. Far more so than taking a pill. From what I read there was a lot more going on than just a change in diet. The drugs will always be there as an option.

jimbob

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#54 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 26, 2013, 09:42:09 pm
Having a mental health disorder - bi polar, depression, PTSD, or any of the many different 'types' of 'disorder' is very tough, especially in this modern era of conformity and stereotypes. Sometimes what might be labelled a 'disorder' might simply be a person having a perfectly natural experience which is needed for them to go through personal emotional change. Modern Western society is too quick to apply labels. So, once we are labelled with a 'disorder', that's it -, we forever live under the stereotype of someone who has a 'disorder'. There is a striking injustice here, to me some of the most beautiful insights into life experienced during psychosis, and also during depression, are written off as 'madness'. Without going into a huge long spiel here, and I'm not trying to be no Agony Auntie,  I'll just say this: it is likely that someone you know, maybe even you, will feel depressed or a bit too high at some point in their life. Don't judge them, and don't judge yourself. Try to connect with others more, or be more open yourself - people will listen. Don't be afraid of feeling different, it's OK.

As far as I'm concerned, my bi polar is, at times, a major pain in the ass (and has nearly cost me my life), but I accept that it a part of who I am. These guys at Soteria have some great ideas:

 http://www.soterianetwork.org.uk/


shurt

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#55 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 12:44:12 am
Was talking to my partner earlier about similar. Our society doesn't like people who aren't considered normal. Give them a label and dose them up and they won't bother anyone. It's not very compassionate.

Also no one is one thing for their whole life. People change. Labels can be hard for people to shake off...

On a personal note I've never had anti depressants although have had problems with depression on and off for 20 odd years. I don't doubt they could have been useful but have found out a lot about myself during bad times which I might not have on the drugs. Friends who have had them say they feel numb and find it hard to feel highs as well as lows.

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#56 The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 08:09:38 am

Was talking to my partner earlier about similar. Our society doesn't like people who aren't considered normal. Give them a label and dose them up and they won't bother anyone. It's not very compassionate.

Also no one is one thing for their whole life. People change. Labels can be hard for people to shake off...

On a personal note I've never had anti depressants although have had problems with depression on and off for 20 odd years. I don't doubt they could have been useful but have found out a lot about myself during bad times which I might not have on the drugs. Friends who have had them say they feel numb and find it hard to feel highs as well as lows.

I've been on Fluoxitine (on and off) for the past 4 years or so. And in the early '90s during a bout of PTSD (then only a syndrome and much harder to get help for than a Disorder).
Despite the scare stories (it's also known as Prozac) I've never experienced any side effects.
It is not a drug per se. More of a supplement for your natural serotonin.
I've always felt much more ME on it, more in control. My depression manifests in anger.

This is not good.

The drug is not narcotic in any way and simply brings the body chemistry back to "normal", mitigating some of the viscous cycle that's is depression and it's physiological effects, that lead to deeper depression.

As I understand (and there are plenty of Medics on here to set me straight), this drug has a reputation for leading to suicidal actions with certain people. I further am lead to believe this is based mainly on anecdotal scare stories from the US in the '90s and on little real study.
This means GPs are reluctant to prescribe it to anyone who has expressed any form of suicidal thoughts.
Since such thoughts are pretty standard for anyone with depression (even "normal" people get such thoughts from time to time), a lot of people who may benefit from this treatment, don't get it...

SA Chris

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#57 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 08:54:55 am
to me some of the most beautiful insights into life experienced during psychosis, and also during depression, are written off as 'madness

They say madness and genius are closely related?

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#58 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 09:05:15 am
medication can be useful as a way of buying you some time while you sort other stuff out - feeling numb for a while is probably better than being dead

ever so slightly slightly off topic: I was lucky enough to get a paid place on one of Ron Coleman's courses in 2005ish. A good mix of people with different mental health symptoms and workers. He presented a pragmatic approach to dealing with psychosis, voices, personality disorders etc (including depression along the way). A guided, well facilitated discussion about the role of medication was part of the course. the whole thing funny as fook. think an overweight Billy Connolly presenting well thought out stuff interspersed with well presented anecdotes about mental health treatment. A lot of laughing was involved - no "ice breaker" shit needed. the words "recovery" and "person centered" may have been used a lot, but that was the fashion at the time (and probably still is). Worth attending his stuff if you get the chance. No idea about evidence etc

My experience  tells me that this may end in tears.
I have less experience, but it tells me the same thing. However, the people for whom it does work don't turn up at mainstream services very often.... I'm not a doctor, scientist or statitician etc etc

I have, at times, been sorely tempted to buy Truehope stuff, but excersize, meds and real food have been enough so far
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 09:23:21 am by lagerstarfish »

shurt

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#59 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 10:59:20 am
Just to be clear I don't think medication is bad or doesn't have its place, I'm sure it is (as Mr lager said) a lifesaver it lots of situations.
My larger gripe is that I don't think the approach to dealing with mental illness in this country is particularly great.

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#60 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 09:29:48 pm
FD, do you think the weight gain has been due to the C-pram?? Or just due to putting on massive slabs of muscle from deadlifting cars etc?

Also please tell me if you notice any difference going from 10mg to eventually zero. I was on 20mg for 2 years and have been on 10mg for 2 years.

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#61 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 11:08:00 pm
I've not done any exercise at all apart from the odd bike ride and climbing trip for nearly two years so that's probably the reason.  My weight gain is all fat.  It'll shift though.  It's hard to say though whether the Cit made me lazier or whether I was just knackered / being easy on myself because of the divorce and big life changes.  I suspect a complex relationship between the two & I think a bit of mammalian hibernation/self preservation kicked in.  My energy levels are definitely higher though and I'm eating less and healthier food too. 

I'll let you know how the taper goes.

Lagers "medication can be useful as a way of buying you some time while you sort other stuff out - feeling numb for a while is probably better than being dead" - this is very true.  As Matt said, SSRIs aren't sedatives, but a means of getting Serotonin levels back to where they should be.

jimbob

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#62 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
November 27, 2013, 11:14:43 pm
I'd also like to be clear about my view on medication.

Medication can be very useful in helping those suffering from a mental health problem. In the past I have taken anti psychotics to control  potentially disastrous situations - and I am very thankful to the health professionals who cared for me when I was very unwell. And very true indeed - better on meds than dead.  However, medication is not panacea. As I've already said, a complete healing strategy must include nutrition and exercise; sunshine;  and the support of good friends and family.

The biggest problem with mental health is that society finds it very hard to talk about it in a positive, constructive and open way. Depression, bi polar and the rest may well be the last taboo. I know from first hand experience how difficult it can be to talk about my 'illness'. After my first episode 17 years ago, I am only now building up the courage to share my experiences with anyone other than a counselor. It has been very hard: A - dealing with the highs and lows of bi polar, and B - living with the stigma that comes with being labelled 'different'.  There is a massive lack of awareness in our society when it comes to mental health. And for those of us who do suffer - finding real, long term help can be nigh on impossible, and it takes real balls to keep our heads above water. I was faced with two options: live the rest of my life hiding who I really am, and pretending that I'm normal - and become increasingly disfunctional as  a result; or, try and make some headway, particularly with those around me who I love dearly and have shared my life with, but have no idea what I have actually been through, and are afraid to even consider talking about it with me.  I think a belief exists that 'real men' don't have emotional problems, mmmmm, really ? Frank Bruno (bi polar), Ricky Hatton (depression), Graeme Obree (depression) - all dedicated World class athletes who have shared publicly their mental health stories, I recommend in particular Obree's autobiography 'The Flying Scotsman', brilliant. And were it not for the amazing creative powers, catalysed by bi polar, of the following artists, we may never have had the joy of hearing their music: Beethoven, Nina Simone, The Beach Boys, Nirvana, Sinatra..................

The very fact that this thread exists is fantastic, it shows that the climbing community is accepting and prepared to listen. So thank you very much.  Fellow climbers - I salute you !


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#64 Re: The Black Dog... WHO Mental Health Day
December 09, 2013, 11:20:05 am
It's great to be able to watch that video and just not identify with it in the way I would have at so many other points in the last 5 or 6 years. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

On the other hand, stress is currently killing me! My health is shot and I'm counting down the months until I can hand in my notice. I don't know what's next, but hopefully it'll be more manageable!

Still need to get better at both preventing and dealing with stress though.

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What is the panel's verdict on swapping from low-dose SSRIs to 5-HTP?

SA Chris

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I'd read some info about it online. I was suggested it as a sleep aid, then read some of the internet info about it, and stayed clear. My 5p worth anyway.

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As far as I am aware there is no clinical data to back its use.
Think cochrane looked at it and concluded no use.

mark.

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I used exercise to combat the symptoms of depression since I can remember, I became a pretty good competitive club runner through it I guess, in the end though it wasn't enough and luckily a friend convinced me to get some medical help about a year ago.
I think endorphins can help sufferers with mild symptoms but more serious depression needs some extra help. :)


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Still need to get better at both preventing and dealing with stress though.

Steve Peters (sports-psychologist to the GB cycling team) has a book you may have heard of called Chimp Paradox. It's very self-help'y and a lot of it I'm not keen on,  but I thought the sections on dealing with work and personal-life stress contained useful practical information on how to mind-manage stressors.

fatkid2000

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Exercise was thought to be useful for depression - latest data suggests not accept in mild depression.

Steve Peters book is ok - I read it to see whether I'd recommend it to patients. It's a bit Daily Mail / self help esque.

An alternative - which I have looked at is mood gym - online Cbt - I know a lot of GPs who also recommend it.

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This is a great thread. Just a shame there isn't more activity.

One author I've found proudly insightful and influential - on my thinking as a whole, not just with regard to mental health - is Dorothy Rowe. The following three articles give an introduction to, and a flavour of, her perspective on the ways in which we cope with distress:

http://www.dorothyrowe.com.au/articles/miscellaneous/item/148-university-of-huddersfield-psychological-therapies-oct-2007

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/may/12/alcohol-addiction-dorothy-rowe

http://www.dorothyrowe.com.au/articles/item/164-dealing-with-physical-and-mental-illness

I found the following piece - by Dr. Gordon Milson - really simple, accessible and very relevant to problems that arise out of our attitudes towards mental health:

http://clinpsychthinking.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/mental-health-stigma-time-to-change-approach/

To speak openly about some of my own difficulties, "low mood" isn't generally a problem, but profound levels of, at times, debilitating anxiety has been. There was one winter - about 2001/2 - when I felt quite terrified for a period of six months or more, and could barely function at all. Lots of time spent in bed etc. A turning point was a chance encounter with a chap from France, who was looking for a room at the time. Meeting someone I knew instinctively that I could trust, and who was also keen to get out running/climbing was a bit of a lifesaver. There have also been other people on the climbing scene, whose warmth and generosity has given me a pad or two to land on from time to time. Hopefully you'll know who you are :-) xx

Dave T.

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Given that the world got a little darker today.

This piece from the Guardian, resonated.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/12/russell-brand-robin-williams-divine-madness-broken-world

Quote

"Is it melancholy to think that a world that Robin Williams can’t live in must be broken? To tie this sad event to the overarching misery of our times? No academic would co-sign a theory in which the tumult of our fractured and unhappy planet is causing the inherently hilarious to end their lives, though I did read that suicide among the middle-aged increased inexplicably in 1999 and has been rising ever since. Is it a condition of our era?"

Yes.

Yes it is.


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It's good to see Depression being discussed.  I read a great editorial this morning that included the sentence (or I paraphrase) "you don't get depression about something in the same you don't get diabetes about something".

 

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