[Doylo]

Regardless of whether it is or not it'd be great if any new venture could cater for both ends of the spectrum from the offset. I can understand why, but still find it odd that private training facilities (School, Mill) offer better training possibilities than the largest commercial walls.

You'd think they'd sort it with the space they have but the upshot is they don't care and its not profitable

[gme]

Despite how it may seam at the works the average climber i would guess still only climbs 5+/6a and around E1. The % of people climbing above 7B or E5 in the UK i guess will be less than 5% and therefore not a particularly interesting area for a profit making facility.

The main lead wall at the foundry is a classic example of the usage of the "elite" it takes up a massive amount of space yet is only used by a maximum of 10% of the membership. The livingstone walls

The school had pretty much everything you could want to train for climbing (bouldering) everything else is frill. Put the circuit board and the campus/motherboard area in a room and the same could be said. The rest of the works is for fun, but that's what makes the money.

If i was building a wall as a business the last people on the list would be the "elite".

[Paul B]

If i was building a wall as a business the last people on the list would be the "elite".

That's fair enough, but if you're going to make a song and dance about being a 'National Climbing Centre of Excellence' then its a different matter.

The main lead wall at the foundry is a classic example of the usage of the "elite" it takes up a massive amount of space yet is only used by a maximum of 10% of the membership. The livingstone walls

Surely if it was just that simple then it (and the Wave) would no longer exist or it'd be plastered with buckets Kalymnos would be proud of?

[mrjonathanr]

I expect Dave (D) will be after schools and youth work as a daytime business base. There's plenty of potential there.

[robertostallioni]

Agree with all your post Gav.

Ditto that.

So do I. Depressing isn't it.

I don't find it depressing. Indoor climbing is developing its own scene.

What Gav describes is a dumbed down corporatized simulacrum of climbing. Is it selfish, elitist, misanthropic and discriminatory to prefer that climbing is less accessible to idiots? Yes probably. Call me a selfish, elitist, discriminating, depressed misanthrope.

sharks already printing the hoodies.........

[Muenchener]

The main lead wall at the foundry is a classic example of the usage of the "elite" it takes up a massive amount of space yet is only used by a maximum of 10% of the membership.

Surely if it was just that simple then it (and the Wave) would no longer exist or it'd be plastered with buckets Kalymnos would be proud of?

I wonder if there's marketing value in having a "elite" corner? Or if most walls are still in fact run by climbers who want to dedicate at least some space to proper climbing even if it isn't completely commercially rational. One of my local walls has a sector where the warm up route is 7b and everything else is 7c to 8b. The rest of the wall often gets really crowded, but the only time I've ever seen more than a couple of people per evening on this sector was when the Russian national team was in town for a competition.

(They also have two bouldering rooms. The new one is set as nu-skool blobby fun, while the old one hidden away in the attic has - to their very great credit - lots of gnarly pulley-endangering crimps that are actually of some value for training for rock)

[Percy B]

Dave D's proposed building is not big enough to house a national climbing centre under the BMC's current criteria (a link to which he has posted in the thread on t'other channel), but I'm sure he'll build a nice big commercial centre and do pretty well. New walls create new interest in the sport, and new climbers, then this is of long-term benefit to all the wall operators in Sheffield. If some wall operators are worried about the impact of extra competition, this is surely the best time to seize the initiative and improve their own facilities?

If Awesome Walls give the other Sheffield walls (including my own) a kick up the arse then its all good. I hope we all take the initiative and spend the rest of the year giving our facilities a refurb to give Davey D a good run for your money!

Gav - I refuse to give you a shiny corporate climbing palace were you can schmoose clients and demonstrate your toe-hooking skills....

  PS: Dave - If you put me out of business, can I have a route-setting job? Just keeping all my bases covered!!

[Jim]

If nothing else, it'll be somewhere different to go

[Dave D]

Thanks for all the comments guys- good, bad or indifferent!

My end goal is not to have a national title but to build a centre that I'm proud of that gets used by many people of many standards. If we can aim to be of a national standard then why shouldn't we, who's going to loose out?

I've had new competition in Manchester, Liverpool and Stoke over the last couple of years, has this put me under or has it made me focus?

Cheers,

Dave Douglas
AWCC

PS: Percy - I think your business is safe!

[Paul T]

Wise words from Percy. Competition should help you focus on your own business and in turn raise your game. It can only lead to better value for customers.
Indoor climbing is changing whether we like it or not, it's part of the curriculum in schools and it is now a mainstream activity for hundreds of thousands in the UK, and one of the few sports that are growing year on year. It's also one of the only activities where newbies can interact with seasoned pros in such a harmonious way, and it is almost unique in ignoring age, gender and class barriers.
You can expect to see many more new walls as indoor climbing's popularity continues to grow. Those who respect and care for this new breed of customer will flourish and grow and those who don't will send their business elsewhere.
We are in a similar situation with a brand new wall coming to Bristol. No one owns a monopoly and far from being uptight about it, we believe this is great for the city's climbers, providing more choice and introducing new people who might not otherwise be exposed to it.
The bottom line for us is to be the best for our customers that we can.

[SA Chris]

I don't find it depressing. Indoor climbing is developing its own scene.

Is developing? Surely it happened at least a decade ago? I know people who would rather travel to Ratho or TCA in Glasgow for the day than climb outdoors locally.

[a dense loner]

With regards to your statement about everybody said the works wouldn't be viable Jon as soon as Sam told me their ideas for world domination I said they're gonna make money hand over fist. There's room for at least a couple more walls in shef n I can't think of a reason why people would think otherwise, unless of course they're an absolute fucking idiot.

[Bonjoy]

With regards to your statement about everybody said the works wouldn't be viable Jon as soon as Sam told me their ideas for world domination I said they're gonna make money hand over fist. There's room for at least a couple more walls in shef n I can't think of a reason why people would think otherwise, unless of course they're an absolute fucking idiot.

The medal's in the post Nostradamus. I didn't actually say everybody, did I.

I remember when the Works was being built there was plenty of doubt among climbers....

I also thought it would probably be a success, but that's beside the point of what I was saying.

[Percy B]

No ones mentioned the fact that Dave D is stalking me...... I build a wall in Dublin - he builds a wall in Dublin. I build a wall in Sheffield - he builds a wall in Sheffield. Hang on, that also means he's stalking Graeme too - well, there's no accounting for taste!

[Tommy]

Nah, it must be Graeme stalking Dave D as he already own's Dave's website www.awesomewallssheffield.com

Fast off the mark! 

[Percy B]

That's Mackems for you...!

[chummer]

Competition is definitely a good thing for all but ultimately good news for local climbers as has already been mentioned by a Dave, Percy an Paul T.

 The brand spanking new super Beacon has just opened over here in N.Wales and obviously loads of folk are checking it out and loving it and we've taken a hit, but that's to be expected for now and it has simply made me look in detail at what we do at The Indy, what we offer that's a little different and how we can improve. It's good business and stops us being slack and we're already planning refurbishments, changes to the pricing structure, etc. All good news to the local climbers and stops any stagnation both for me and the wall.

I think the key here is not to be competing head on with exactly the same product but trying to find a bit of a niche, something we do a little differently.

With regard to 'elite corners' etc, I actually find my V5+ (Indy V5 is quite hard) market to be really important, especially in the evenings. These are the ones who if we're doing things right will come into the wall 3 times a week at least to train, they'll often bring a little entourage with them, they give punters something to aspire to, and there is actually quite a few of them, they even give the wall a little kudos/cool providing they're not parading around like nobbers, something we're quite lucky with here.

Providing a proper campus and finger board set up is obvious and doesn't really take up much space, but also setting quality, regularly changed harder problems away form super easy ones is important and something many walls can't seem to bring themselves to do. They'll set a hard problem then put a V1 jug fest through it which brings with it it's own problems.

It's all about what type of wall you want to be and what sort of scene and atmosphere you want in there and I think you can market to both the punters and better climbers you just have to organise the wall with a bit of thought and not have massive groups in the evenings too regularly, unless you go all out for the group and punter market of course, great money spinner but imagine working there..

Paul T and Percy hit the nail on the head, more walls breeds more climbers, more competition breeds better walls.

[GraemeA]

Nah, it must be Graeme stalking Dave D as he already own's Dave's website www.awesomewallssheffield.com

Fast off the mark! 

And .co.uk Technically theses domains are owned by the awesomest wall in Sheffield ie The Works.

But Percy is correct, Davey D was spotted in Munich just before I turned up for the Boulder World Cup last weekend. And I am sure I spotted the bugger in the crowd at the World Youths in Singapore tomorrow 

[Dave D]

awesomewallsmunich.com
awesomewallssingapore.com

Where will it end?

Dave D
Happy with www.awesomewalls.co thanks.

[tomtom]

awesomewallsmunich.com
awesomewallssingapore.com

Where will it end?

Dave D
Happy with www.awesomewalls.co thanks.

Can I make a request for

awesomewallshull.com please?

Pretty please?
Pretty pretty please?

I notice theres a new bouldering wall planned for York by the by.,.. Red goat climbing or something.,...

[Dicker]

Can we please please please get some decent sized training boards put in the new centre - something Sheffield NEEDS.

[shark]

Hey Dave D,

It would be great to have a wall committed to forming and coaching a Junior Peak team  to crush the South East in YCS

The Foundry wound their team up and whilst the Edge has advanced Junior Coaching sessions the JETS is not a cohesive team as such.

I could give a long list of what would make an ideal training venue but I'm sure you've heard it all before..

[Three Nine]

Wise words from Percy. Competition should help you focus on your own business and in turn raise your game. It can only lead to better value for customers.
Indoor climbing is changing whether we like it or not, it's part of the curriculum in schools and it is now a mainstream activity for hundreds of thousands in the UK, and one of the few sports that are growing year on year. It's also one of the only activities where newbies can interact with seasoned pros in such a harmonious way, and it is almost unique in ignoring age, gender and class barriers.
You can expect to see many more new walls as indoor climbing's popularity continues to grow. Those who respect and care for this new breed of customer will flourish and grow and those who don't will send their business elsewhere.
We are in a similar situation with a brand new wall coming to Bristol. No one owns a monopoly and far from being uptight about it, we believe this is great for the city's climbers, providing more choice and introducing new people who might not otherwise be exposed to it.
The bottom line for us is to be the best for our customers that we can.

I shall pray nightly that the new Sheffield wall is nothing like TCA Bristol.

[Paul T]

I shall pray nightly that the new Sheffield wall is nothing like TCA Bristol.

Each to their own...

[tim palmer]

I know this maybe jumping the gun somewhat but who will be setting at the wall?