[Greg C]

Is it me or do any other people think that it is quite ironic, in that as we seem to be within this current trend of undergrading/being realistic (what ever you think!) when grading new boulder problems. When alot of hard grit routes which get a technical grade of english 6c would (from my expierience) never get V7 if the moves were on a boulder problem.
I must stress that I have not done that many hard grit routes although I have asked a few other more prolific hard gritters and they also (although I don`t think they would like to admit it) would say alot of "Hard Grit Routes" in the E6 to E8 bracket would struggle to make the V5/6 mark.
Thoughts please!

Greg

[Bubba]

You trying to say that Equilibrium is only V5 really then  :wink:

I guess you can only believe the people who've done both, and it's always going to be tricky giving a route a problem grade unless you're toproping it, otherwise the desire not to fall off is almost certainly going to cloud judgement and make it feel harder than it really is.  I bet there are some E8's that would only make a V6 problem, but then I can try a v6 all day without snapping my legs.

I think V-grades would be a good way of grading routes. E6 V6 means more to me than E6 6b.

[Greg C]

I don`t think Equilibrium is in the E6 to E8 bracket unless mister Gresham down graded it!

I don`t agree with using V grades on routes but I can see were your coming from.

Greg

[dave]

I could imagine things like End of the affair and Countdown to disaster getting V grades of V4 (i've never been on them but i say them as being at the bold end of the scale) and ceratinly things like that E6 on great slab at froggatt  proabbly has a crux of V2 or something daft like that. Also someone once told be Parthian Shot crux is V7.

Didn't Seb say Meshuga was F7c to toprope, making it also about V7.

Still you gotta remember that V4 with deckout potential is still gonna be hard.

For what my experience is worth i recon Track of the cat is about V4 ish. The Knock is probably V2.

[Bubba]

I don`t think Equilibrium is in the E6 to E8 bracket unless mister Gresham down graded it!

Yeah, only joking. What don't you like about v-grades on routes? I think the same argument apply regarding the meaningless of the BTG above a certain level.

From a totally armchair point of view, and doubtless if I was on it I'd be loading my pants, but does anyone else think that the actual climbing on Obsession Fatale lookes quite straightforward? Go on, tell me I'm talking crap and really every move is slopey 6b or something....

[Greg C]

Interesting points thanks. Although if things like End of The Afair
get an English grade of 6c then you have to eliminate the fear factor         (E grade) from the argument. As if somthing is 6c then has to be realistically atleast V6 and bearing in mind a route combines a number of moves not just one it has to really be around V7.

Greg

[Bubba]

The Knock is probably V2.

Is the topout horribly slopey on 't Knock? Sure looks it from below. For some reason I've always fancied the Knock as an onsight, though I may be dreaming these days as I get quite scared on much smaller things than that.

[Greg C]

I don`t see the point of using the V grade on routes because it was invented for bouldering and thats what it suits best just as E grades suit routes.
Why do you need V grades on a route surely E8 6c is enough info!
My argument wasn`t that the way we do it now is wrong, only that do we apply the same rules to the different disaplines surley 6c is 6c whether its on a route or a boulder problem is irelevent!

Greg

[Bubba]

Some people use V-grades to describe crux sequences but I'm not saying the system should be changed - I think the E/BTG system works fine apart from the fact a lot of people seem to find it hard to grasp.

6c on routes and problems should be the same but lots of people seem to accept that it's different. Stupid really.

[dave]

The top o' t'knock does slope the wrong way but its fine if you stick your right foot out right and don't try and top-out over left, instead stick right. I was once there with 2 mates, both lead it onsight/ground-up with a mat and gear, in horrendous wind, one of them had only done E2 before.

I can tell you exactly what gear goes in the break, and if you place it right its bomber (you don't need gay gear like aliens or owt). The first time i lead it i had a nut that was so good the second had to go back down for the nut-key. The placement was worn a bit now (about to a #1 or 3/4), bit theres a bomber #2 friend anall.

Note to toperopers:
1. You are gay! only kidding
2. Rig up you ropes carefully since the top already has suffered horrendous damage from poorly rigged topropes. I got the photos to proove it.

End of rant.

[Bubba]

Looks like a good problem under the Knock - rising right to left traverse on obvious hand-holds near the lip of the little roof - think that's under the Knock anyhow....

[nik at work]

Obbsession Fatale is easy until the last two or three moves. Trouble is at that point you are 12 metres up with no gear - ho-hum.
I think the last moves are very low 6c (I can't convert that to bouldering as I don't understand bouldering grades), however most people seem to think 6b. I am short (and ugly, but that's not strictly relevant) so that might make a difference.
I would agree. There is a difference between 'route 6c' and 'proper bouldering 6c'. I think it is very difficult to compare the two, even though it seems as though it would be easy. To take Obsession as an example even if you are 'trying' (a.k.a. tr'ing) the route there is still the rope there and you are still x metres off the ground in a very false environment so it is difficult to reconcile that to a boulder problem that you can try all day by yourself without your harness costantly crushing your nads or a beleyer getting bored and dropping you a few unexpected feet etc etc.
Has anyone understood a word I've just written and does it make any sense?

[dave]

yes, we understand nik, we understand.

Nurse, get his pills please.......

[nik at work]

This coming from the "obsessive maniac". Hmmm?

[Bubba]

Yeah ! It's time for another grading conversion chart, this time we have route/boulder British Tech Grades.

[Greg C]

It would be intersting to here what some one like Dan Honeyman or Tom De Gay think being as they seem to have done every hard grit between E6 and E7 and alot of E8`s.

Greg

[nik at work]

In my experience when you actually lead the routes the grade generally feel right. However when working a route the grade can feel easier but once you are on the sharp end it feels very different.
So whilst a 6c route will probably be easier than a 6c boulder problem in terms of actually just climbing the crux, when you lead/solo the route when you get to the top you will be in no doubt that you have done 6c. Sounds stupid but thats how it works for me. Also if you onsight something then there is a tendency to think it's easy - I mean it only took you one attempt afterall. What can be quite a wierd thing to do is to onsight a route. Then go back to it a try it on a rope and find it totally desperate - slightly disconcerting!

[dave]

This coming from the "obsessive maniac". Hmmm?

We'll have less of your lip sunshine, or i'll moderate yo' ass into the middle of next week. :wink: Pot calling kettle black syndrome acknowledged

Yeah ! It's time for another grading conversion chart, this time we have route/boulder British Tech Grades.

You can do it in a round about way, just look what French grade is gets on Jon Read's site, then use the Rockfax table for boulder traverse grades to get a V/font grade. I recon it works for some routes, probably the bold technical non-pumpathon type routes

[Bubba]

You can do it in a round about way, just look what French grade is gets on Jon Read's site, then use the Rockfax table for boulder traverse grades to get a V/font grade. I recon it works for some routes, probably the bold technical non-pumpathon type routes

Noooo!!!! Nightmare!

[dobbin]

Look, its dead simple. Routes are gay and bouldering is not. Clear?