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Ashima(mini)wad (Read 59165 times)

habrich

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#50 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
December 23, 2012, 05:43:02 pm
Best bouldering flick I've seen for a while.

Is this any different to the 2011 Reelrock "Origins" film? Seems to be the same length.

r-man

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#51 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
January 11, 2013, 07:48:32 pm

r-man

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#52 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
January 19, 2013, 01:05:25 pm

simes

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#53 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 09, 2013, 11:11:43 pm
Best bouldering flick I've seen for a while.



That's a great little video.

jwi

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#54 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 09:01:35 am
I cannot be the only one made extremely uncomfortable by sporting performances by young children being treated as news. Let children be children.

There are many good reasons why Fédération Internationale de Gymnastique don't accept gymnasts under 16 at the olympic games. Climbing is in many aspects a similar sport, we don't have an olympic game, but performances outside on routes and boulders are often treated as if it was a competitive sport.

In the unlikely situation that someone cares what I think, I vote to not heavily publicise sporting performances for children under the age of 16.

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#55 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 09:19:58 am
are you worried that young climbers are going to feel forced to try and stay in the news by pushing themselves? as i agree that this can lead to injuries and excess pressure etc.
but if we all stopped publicising 'miniwads' ascents i dont think that would stop them wanting to try hard, most kids have relentless energy and enjoy trying hard.

in conclusion......... i think sponsors should be careful not to pressure them too much, but i think miniwads should have recognition.

jwi

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#56 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 09:41:03 am
I think we all understand that in a sport where weight to strength ratio is important, e.g. bouldering or gymnastics, the best women are prepubescent. The best girls are going to be the talented few who have not yet had a serious tendon injury.

I am quite sure that treating children's climbing as a competitive elite sport fosters a culture where parents/coaches pressure the children to preform on a level that their bodies cannot tolerate without permanent damages. Practicing at elite levels is also mentally demanding, and behavioural and psychological problems will be the consequence for many.

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#57 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 10:18:35 am
sure ive seen some footage of obi carrion (sp?) talking about how he became really depressed after the pressure and hard training in his teenage years. he talks about loosing focus etc...

it is down to parents, coaches and sponsors to prevent excess pressure. and i presume coaches make sure the kids arent overworked/ overstrained and train correctly (ie no campus boards etc until tendons are strong enough).

r-man

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#58 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 10:57:28 am
I think we all understand that in a sport where weight to strength ratio is important, e.g. bouldering or gymnastics, the best women are prepubescent. The best girls are going to be the talented few who have not yet had a serious tendon injury.

That's just not true. The best women in climbing (to name a few) are...

Lynn Hill
Josune Bereziartu
Sasha DiGiulian
Anna Stohr
Lisa Rands
Alex Puccio
Dorothea Karalus
Barbara Zangerl
Beth Rodden

...And they aren't prepubuscent. Ashima is clearly up there with them, but considering what the other women have achieved over their lifetimes, I don't see why she can't keep on improving as she grows. Climbing is not gymnastics.

I'm sure there are risks to training young, but if kids want to dedicate themselves to something they are passionate about, perhaps it's better to help them do it safely, rather than say no.

jwi

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#59 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 11:28:29 am
I think we all understand that in a sport where weight to strength ratio is important, e.g. bouldering or gymnastics, the best women are prepubescent. The best girls are going to be the talented few who have not yet had a serious tendon injury.

That's just not true. The best women in climbing (to name a few) are...

Lynn Hill
Josune Bereziartu
Sasha DiGiulian
Anna Stohr
Lisa Rands
Alex Puccio
Dorothea Karalus
Barbara Zangerl
Beth Rodden

...And they aren't prepubuscent. Ashima is clearly up there with them, but considering what the other women have achieved over their lifetimes, I don't see why she can't keep on improving as she grows. Climbing is not gymnastics.

I'm sure there are risks to training young, but if kids want to dedicate themselves to something they are passionate about, perhaps it's better to help them do it safely, rather than say no.

Ashima is clearly better at bouldering than many of the above mentioned are, or ever was at their peak.

I think climbing is a fantastic sport (obviously) and kids who love it should be given encouragement to do it (obviously). But even if kids perform at world-class levels, they should not be treated as fodder for the news-cycle. I think it put children's health in unnecessary danger.

In Sweden, the climbing federation tried to bar use of crimp holds from junior competitions. This decision was taken based on some recent evidence that training for maximum strength in the crimp hold leads to permanent life-long damages in the hands of junior climbers. The reactions from many coaches to the federation's move taught me all I needed to know about some peoples priorities on performance vs health for children.

The BMC trying to tell children to stop campusing was also an illuminating episode.

masonwoods101

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#60 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 12:05:04 pm
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,21169.0.html  good thread here talking about the whole training too young thing.

r-man

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#61 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 02:34:31 pm
Ashima is clearly better at bouldering than many of the above mentioned are, or ever was at their peak.

Obviously, because some of those listed are legends of previous decades, and some are not boulderers. But the point is that they achieved their best not when they were pre-teens, but as adults, after many years of training.  Your statement that "in...bouldering...the best women are prepubescent" is false. One Ashima does not make it true. You can't even say it's true for Ashima, because you don't have an older Ashima to compare her to.

I don't buy this idea that Ashima is on course for disaster (perhaps not precisely what you are saying, but I have heard this from many others). There are lots of young people who have trained hard and continued to climb harder and harder as they grew up. Caution is not a bad thing, because injuries do happen, but I'm not sure we are really doing too much harm by getting excited about a promising young climber.

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#62 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 06:49:58 pm
Ashima is clearly better at bouldering than many of the above mentioned are, or ever was at their peak.
I don't buy this idea that Ashima is on course for disaster (perhaps not precisely what you are saying, but I have heard this from many others). There are lots of young people who have trained hard and continued to climb harder and harder as they grew up. Caution is not a bad thing, because injuries do happen, but I'm not sure we are really doing too much harm by getting excited about a promising young climber.

no one (mostly) ever became world class good by waiting for their growth plates to finish...

habrich

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#63 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 07:11:02 pm
At risk of some racial stereotyping here, but: she's Japanese. Puberty is unlikely to turn her into some rotund tendon-wrecking heffalump ... as might be more likely were her genes from <insert western location of your choice>.

Danny

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#64 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 08:46:48 pm
Ashima in 10 years?


ianv

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#65 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
February 28, 2013, 09:50:01 pm
Quote
I am quite sure that treating children's climbing as a competitive elite sport fosters a culture where parents/coaches pressure the children to preform on a level that their bodies cannot tolerate without permanent damages. Practicing at elite levels is also mentally demanding, and behavioural and psychological problems will be the consequence for many.

I dont get the impression that this is happening to Ashima, she seems like a kid that loves climbing (much like Ondra at a similar age). I bet she will still be climbing, and kicking ass, in 5 or 10 yrs time.

On the other hand, I would be less sure about Robin Ebersfield's daughter as she will no doubt be subject to extreme pushy parent mother pressure and probably end up wrecked or hating climbing  :(

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#67 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 01, 2013, 12:47:14 am
Not sure where you get that from Ian. She seems to love climbing for what it is from what I've seen.

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#68 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 01, 2013, 03:13:39 am
Is there conclusive evidence about what hanging off your fingers at a young age might do? There are enough climbers in their mid 30s now who will have trained hard as youths. I used a finger board and trained on a board at age 11 and 26 years later I've just had my first pulley tear. Generally speaking my fingers have never been a problem.

You will always get pushy parents in kids sport. Even without media attention there's the comp scene and some kids will drop out anyway if they're too pressured/don't continue to enjoy it. My dad used to drive me around the country doing BMX comps (I was ranked 3rd nationally in my age group at one point). I jacked it in, not because I felt loads of pressure, I just lost interest. Some kids would cry at the end of races if they'd not done as well as hoped whilst others weren't that bothered. That's just the way it is.

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#69 Re: Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 01, 2013, 04:02:23 pm
I used a finger board and trained on a board at age 11 and 26 years later I've just had my first pulley tear.

Fucking hell Tom, was that the first board in the world?

I agree with all of that post by the way. I also did lots of training from a young age and I never got a finger injury. In fact I've only had the odd minor ligament tweak even now and never done a tendon (yet).

I think it helps to train your fingers as they are developing both to prevent injuries in the future and to keep a base level of finger strength which you never lose. This is based on my case study of one.

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#70 Re: Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 01, 2013, 05:26:35 pm
I used a finger board and trained on a board at age 11 and 26 years later I've just had my first pulley tear.

Fucking hell Tom, was that the first board in the world?
 
:lol: built in my garage - real pieces of Lakeland slate attached to the wall with plastic padding, a ply 45 degree board in the eaves and a 6 foot long finger board for foot off circuits (except I was too small and weak to do much with feet off). 1988 - Mark Leach training for Cry Freedom with foot off circuits in Pollit's? garage was the inspiration I think!

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#71 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 01, 2013, 08:28:28 pm
Quality. Having had first hand experience of how shit that garage board was I reckon yours was probably far superior.

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#72 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 03, 2013, 03:13:25 am
This is a topic I find quite interesting.

I disagree that news about kids climbing/bouldering exploits is in some way dangerous or worrying, or that it is somehow going to drive them to injuring themselves.  Ashima *is* exceptional (the same way that it's pretty exceptional that Stevie Haston is still cranking so hard at his age!) and thus newsworthy.

I definitely see some kids being pushed too hard by parents / coaches, but I expect that's the same in lots of sports? Good coaching should help kids learn to be better athletes, and progress whilst minimizing the chance that they hurt themselves through overtraining or poor technique, whatever their chosen sport. Things like keeping them away from campus boards and focussing on larger volumes of easy climbing to build technique seem like common sense to me. Fun fact: all the pushy parents I know whose kids compete are not actually climbers themselves.

I think kids actually get lots out of competition, too - learning to cope with being nervous in front of a crowd, pressure, disappointment etc are all useful life skills. I also think climbing specifically is great for developing focus and other mental skills.

I've climbed since I was 11 (now 37), but never competed, and I don't think I've ever had a serious finger injury despite climbing 7c or so way back when, bouldering on crimpy limestone and training on boards (Nick Jowett had one in his garden shed in Rhos-on-Sea). The worst I ever had as a kid was mild bouts of sore elbows, I think.

I do think over-training when young, or training too hard on small holds (as illustrated by that BMC sponsored research) is likely to have a detrimental affect on kids joint health in later life (and I see a bit of that in some people I know in their 20's who used to compete as kids). Actually, I think one possibly more likely/widespread negative consequence of kids climbing from a very young age is going to be gnarly toes - bunions from tightly fitting shoes are pretty hard to avoid.

My daughter competes, but only because she wants to,  and there's certainly no pressure from me. She's got a really great coach, and climbs with a bunch of other really nice kids who love climbing outdoors as well as competing. I can't think of anything I'd rather her be doing...

Hm. I think that might be my longest post ever.


SA Chris

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#73 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 03, 2013, 02:30:12 pm
And probably best? Good insights. Eldest is 3 and a bit now and keeps wanting to climbing 'wif' me, but more inclined to wait for some warmer weather and get him doing sme more scrambling on boulders outdoors rather than thinking indoor climbing is the norm.

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#74 Re: Ashima(mini)wad
March 03, 2013, 02:43:09 pm
Sorry Chris but you have already ruined your of springs chances of getting good. They should be on at least the 7a section of the beast maker app by now or think about another sport.