[subseasniper]

Hey everyone.

I got myself a Beastmaker 2000 a few weeks ago and am looking to get my training a little bit more structured so I can maximise my gains as efficiently as possible.

I would love if some of you guys could share your beastmaker training regimes so we can compare notes.

I am by no meas an expert at the beastmaker, I still have a long way to go. To give you an idea of my current level (to help me figure out a training plan) I can currently just about do a decent, controlled pull up on the 45's, I can do 5 x middle-two pull ups on the back two pockets and I can do middle mono deadhangs for about ten seconds.

I am looking for a general improvement in strength across the board.

Please share your beastmaker experiences, tips, regimes with me. I totally love this board and see it as the key to unlocking newer, stronger forearms/hands.

Thanks in advance.

[mrjonathanr]

I am looking for a general improvement in strength across the board.

Very good.

[peewee]

Might be some useful info here http://www.beastmaker.co.uk/pages/training

[tomtom]

Use the search - theres a few threads on here about it...

[subseasniper]

Cheers guys, I  have been on the beastmaker site but there isn't much on there. They seem to be concentrating on getting the training app ready, which is cool, but in the meantime I could with some structure.

I will search the threads here.

[shark]

The below links should give you the answers you are looking for:

Dan Varian (Beastie boy #1) aka Carlisle Slapper
General fingerboard advice
Dan's advice on a GBIC thread
Ned Feehally (Beastie boy #2)
Video:Fingerboard Training – Beginner
Fingerboard Training – Advanced
Stretching
Fingerboard training plans

Although not specific to Beastmakers Probes (of Crusher Holds) guidance is on the money A comprehensive guide to fingerboard traing

For other links to training articles this should help (confuse you).

[Sasquatch]

As I got my beastmaker in January, I'll bite and give you pretty much my exact workouts. These are pretty much exactly the "intermediate" ones recommended by the Beastmaker guys.

I'm a big believer in consistancy, so I literally did the same FB workout 3 times a week for 6 weeks (different weights, same structure).  I also spent 2 weeks building up to the volume in these sets. At the end of each week I would assess if I needed to increase the weight for the following week.  I would never change the weight during the week-all three sessions were identical. 

6 week training cycle:

Monday - Fingerboard
Tuesday - Active Recovery
Wednesday - Fingerboard
Thursday - Active Recovery
Friday - Fingerboard
Saturday - Active Recovery
Sunday - Rest

Fingerboard:
   Warm-up - This usually consisted of a 5-10 min run, then 5 minutes of light/easy bouldering, then 5-10 min of progressive hangs (doing 5-7 second hangs on the same fingers as your workout, gradually building to the same hold you'll use in the workout).

   Repeater: on open crimp, back 2, front 2, closed crimp, middle 2, Sloper.   Repeater = 7 second Hang, 3 second rest x 6, then run for 3 minutes.

   After completing all of them rest for an additional 5 minutes.

   Repeater: on open crimp, back 2, front 2, closed crimp, middle 2, Sloper.   Repeater = 7 second Hang, 3 second rest x 6, then rest for 3 minutes.

   Cool - down:  Easy bouldering for 5-10 minutes. 

Active Recovery: VERY easy bouldering (I max out around v10/11ish and this is all v0) for 30-40 minutes.

[Andrew B]

So just 2 sets of repeaters on each of those hold types? What was the outcome of this; have you seen much improvement in actual climbing performance?

[Sasquatch]

So just 2 sets of repeaters on each of those hold types? What was the outcome of this; have you seen much improvement in actual climbing performance?

From a training perspective, I increased resistance for each hold type by between 15-30kgs over a 6 week period. (e.g. from need to take off about 5kgs to hang the 35s to adding 25kgs).  I do attribute a large portion of that to just starting FB'ing and breaking in the board.

From a climbing perspective, it's tough to say for sure as the season is just getting going here in Alaska.  Hoping for my first day outside tomorrow.  I'm confident I've never been this strong at the start of a season before.  I took a trip to Joe's Valley and was able climb more hard stuff faster than on any other trip I've taken.  I'm pretty sure it's been a huge step forward for me, but we'll see how I fare when I can finally get on some of my longer term projects this summer. 

A couple of tweaks to notice - I run or do other exercises on the 3min between repeaters hangs.  There have been a couple of studies showing better strength gains from engaging an alternate muscle group between exercises. 

[Andrew B]

Thanks for the reply, sounds interesting. Good luck with your climbing!

[duncan]

I am looking for a general improvement in strength across the board.

I'm sure all of the above will help you get stronger on the beastmaker.  Elsewhere you indicate that you only climb E1/2 and 6a (Font? UK tech? Sport?) despite being able to do a pull-up on the 45s.   

This suggests that raw strength is the least of your concerns if you want to improve your climbing.

[subseasniper]

Strength is probably the least of my concerns as you say but, with the weather being utterly shite up here, there seems to be more training going on that actual climbing. Technique is taking a bit of a back seat right now unfortunately.

[Sasquatch]

I'm sure all of the above will help you get stronger on the beastmaker.  Elsewhere you indicate that you only climb E1/2 and 6a (Font? UK tech? Sport?) despite being able to do a pull-up on the 45s.   

This suggests that raw strength is the least of your concerns if you want to improve your climbing.

 

Despite the poor weather.  Any type of body awareness training will be more helpful than a FB workout if this is the case.  I still can't even hang the 45s and I'm bouldering font 7C+ in a session. 

I would suggest climbing volume to learn to move your body well.  As in start climbing everyday.  Not hard, just lots of movment and playing on the wall.  Decent holds in funky positions. 

A way to measure this would be to start off by doing 200 moves every day, then add about 10% to that each week until you're up to about 500 moves a day.  If nessesary and you're motivated enough, this can be done on a board as small 4ft by 8ft (I know- I've done it)....

Good Luck

[Omar15]

I still can't even hang the 45s and I'm bouldering font 7C+ in a session. 

That's insane.


In terms of a workout, I've found working different max hangs (ie stuff you can only hold one or two armed for a 1-3 seconds) when you're really warm and all recruited up works well. Usually I find in a session I get better and better on whatever im trying, plateau and then start to go downhill - I try a different hang when that happens til im done. Weirdly I notice that sometimes on open handed hangs I'll feel stronger and stronger until suddenly I won't be able to hang it again at all til next session.

Good luck anyway!

[Duma]

I still can't even hang the 45s and I'm bouldering font 7C+ in a session. 

That's insane.

Keep in mind that Omar boulders 7B whilst FB'ing about 8B.
Strongest shit climber I've ever met. 

[Seb]

I still can't even hang the 45s and I'm bouldering font 7C+ in a session. 

That's insane.

One of my lifes ambitions is to climb harder than you while still being unable to do a one armer. Just to annoy you.
Credit where credits due hanging the sloppy 2 finger pockets one armed was pretty impressive though.

[subseasniper]

I'm guessing for 'sloppy' read 'slopey'.

[Seb]

  Yes, damn me and my spelling.

[Omar15]

Haha, thanks.

Duma - fingerboarding is bouldering too.

Seb - I find it pretty amazing you can even put your shoes on unaided without being able to do more than 10 pullups.

[Seb]

Omar, after an extensive training regiment I have now reached 12 pull ups. 

[shark]

Haha, thanks.

Duma - fingerboarding is bouldering to

   

Whoa cowboy hold the front page etc Do you wish to reconsider the above

[saltbeef]

Omar, after an extensive training regiment I have now reached 12 pull ups. 

regiment? you and your soldier boys?

[Seb]

Im beginning to think english might not be my first langauge.

[Sasquatch]

I still can't even hang the 45s and I'm bouldering font 7C+ in a session. 

That's insane.

One of my lifes ambitions is to climb harder than you while still being unable to do a one armer. Just to annoy you.
Credit where credits due hanging the sloppy 2 finger pockets one armed was pretty impressive though.

That's insane. 

I can't even hang them off two arms with 20kgs of weight taken off.  I guess we all know what I need to do to improve.

[Omar15]

I can't even hang them off two arms with 20kgs of weight taken off.  I guess we all know what I need to do to improve.

Is that a friction issue though? I've got a friend who can hang the 45s on the beastmaker at the wall, but apparently on his one at home he can't touch them. I've never really seen the attraction of them to be honest - I feel if I can hold them I can hold them for a while, but on other days if I can't its not because im weaker, I just slip off. As opposed to edges or the pockets where I can feel my fingers taking the strain. I don't know. What's the training benefit meant to be from the 45s?

I imagine even if you're twinkletoes, being able to smash out 7C+ in a session means you can't be that weak!

Credit where credits due hanging the sloppy 2 finger pockets one armed was pretty impressive though.

It was only the normal two finger pockets on the bottom rail. Hanging the 45 pockets one armed would be crazy. Has anyone done that yet?

[Duma]

I imagine even if you're twinkletoes, being able to smash out 7C+ in a session means you can't be that weak!

but I've managed that, and you've been very rude about my inability to even deadhang a big campus rung in the past!
This thread is brilliant, in fact, on the strength of it, I've just reread your one armer thread, and now my abs hurt.

[Seb]

  I was sure you managed that at craggy 2. Oh well.
Yer the 45s are weird my beastmaker at home I cant even get close to but the one at the arch I hung for ages without warming up. I think how broken in they are makes a huge difference.

[Omar15]

Duma, I refuse to believe that there could be possibly be another human being as capable and yet as weak as you out there, anywhere. Although you do have strong legs. I don't know how to say that without it sounding massively homoerotic.

[Duma]

that's cos you mean it to be. x

[saltbeef]

Duma, I've been admiring your powerful thighs

[Nibile]

Skin and friction are issues on the 45 and on the slopey pockets. I can - briefly - hang the 45 with 6 kg on, but I can immediately feel, in the warm up, if it's going to happen or not. Same thing, taken to extremes, for the slopey pockets.
I generally do just two or three strong hangs right after the warm up, when skin is still good and fresh, then I drop them, to concentrate on the other prehensions, less friction dependant.
On the 45 I think it's crucial to try and apply pressure, instead of just dangling from them. I always imagine I want to drill holes in the wood with my fingers.

[Sasquatch]

Is that a friction issue though? I've got a friend who can hang the 45s on the beastmaker at the wall, but apparently on his one at home he can't touch them. I've never really seen the attraction of them to be honest - I feel if I can hold them I can hold them for a while, but on other days if I can't its not because im weaker, I just slip off. As opposed to edges or the pockets where I can feel my fingers taking the strain. I don't know. What's the training benefit meant to be from the 45s?

I imagine even if you're twinkletoes, being able to smash out 7C+ in a session means you can't be that weak!

It could be a friction issue.  The board is still relatively new(January), and I've only been working the 45s for a couple of weeks.  I can tell that it takes a bit of fondling before the 35s feel good, but no matter how much fondling I do, the 45s never feel any better.....

As far as why I'm training them, it's mostly because I can't do it. I suppose the other side of it is training a different type of pulling.  Each finger joint has a tendon /muscle combo engaging to cause it to contract.  I assume if you train each, then you'll be able to use each better.  Just like you train each finger (mono's, two-fingers, etc), I assume you should train each joint combo as well.

I've always known guys who can crimp the crap out of stuff, but can't hang a good sloper for anything.  I know part of it is technique, but to just hang, there's very little technique so the difference should be primarily down to hanging strength.  Everyone seems to look at conditions for slopers, and while I agree they make a big difference, I've definitely seen guys hang slopers I can't touch in the same csession, so they must be STRONGER on slopers...  Simple right?

Please tell me I'm wrong so I can quit banging my head on the 45s and getting nowhere.......

[rodma]

Please tell me I'm wrong so I can quit banging my head on the 45s and getting nowhere.......

Keep trying, I can't hang mine either without nestling and pinching underneath but I do reps cheating like this since by pinching as hard as i can underneath, since it Superloads^tm my fingers 

[Omar15]

Is that a friction issue though? I've got a friend who can hang the 45s on the beastmaker at the wall, but apparently on his one at home he can't touch them. I've never really seen the attraction of them to be honest - I feel if I can hold them I can hold them for a while, but on other days if I can't its not because im weaker, I just slip off. As opposed to edges or the pockets where I can feel my fingers taking the strain. I don't know. What's the training benefit meant to be from the 45s?

I imagine even if you're twinkletoes, being able to smash out 7C+ in a session means you can't be that weak!

It could be a friction issue.  The board is still relatively new(January), and I've only been working the 45s for a couple of weeks.  I can tell that it takes a bit of fondling before the 35s feel good, but no matter how much fondling I do, the 45s never feel any better.....

As far as why I'm training them, it's mostly because I can't do it. I suppose the other side of it is training a different type of pulling.  Each finger joint has a tendon /muscle combo engaging to cause it to contract.  I assume if you train each, then you'll be able to use each better.  Just like you train each finger (mono's, two-fingers, etc), I assume you should train each joint combo as well.

I've always known guys who can crimp the crap out of stuff, but can't hang a good sloper for anything.  I know part of it is technique, but to just hang, there's very little technique so the difference should be primarily down to hanging strength.  Everyone seems to look at conditions for slopers, and while I agree they make a big difference, I've definitely seen guys hang slopers I can't touch in the same csession, so they must be STRONGER on slopers...  Simple right?

Please tell me I'm wrong so I can quit banging my head on the 45s and getting nowhere.......

Yeah, what you're saying is interesting. I'm going to try and hunt out a beastmaker that isn't at a wall and see what the difference is. I suppose my thinking is that when im training open hand or half crimp stuff on an edge, after a good session I can really feel it in my fingers the next day. On the 45s though, I've never really felt much soreness the next day. Do you find the 45s give you any soreness at all? Although admittedly I've rarely spent much time hammering them so that might be why.

that's cos you mean it to be. x

Not when you wear those cockblocking orange trousers.

[Sasquatch]

On the 45s though, I've never really felt much soreness the next day. Do you find the 45s give you any soreness at all? Although admittedly I've rarely spent much time hammering them so that might be why.

Not in the same way as the crimps, but I can tell they get worked sometimes when I'm doing heavy loads on the 35s....

Please tell me I'm wrong so I can quit banging my head on the 45s and getting nowhere.......

Keep trying, I can't hang mine either without nestling and pinching underneath but I do reps cheating like this since by pinching as hard as i can underneath, since it Superloads^tm my fingers 

You were supposed to tell me to stop and that training the 45s was worthless 

[Oldmanmatt]

Ok, I'm thinking this is a friction thing.

I don't have a BM, my board is a Beacon, but the centre slopers are 45° and the outers 30.

On the plastic, I can hang them easily and one hand the 30's.

But I have trouble hanging the small crimps on the back two and I would characterise my self as "Crap" on slopers.

So, am I missing something, or is it just because it's wood?

[Sasquatch]

Ok, I'm thinking this is a friction thing.

I don't have a BM, my board is a Beacon, but the centre slopers are 45° and the outers 30.

On the plastic, I can hang them easily and one hand the 30's.

But I have trouble hanging the small crimps on the back two and I would characterise my self as "Crap" on slopers.

So, am I missing something, or is it just because it's wood?

I think my problem may be more related to excessive beastliness outside of my fingers/forearms. 

[subseasniper]

I don't know if this is considered cheating or bad form but I often raise a knee out in front of me when pulling up on the 45's. This seems to keep my weight right under the board.

I like doing pull ups on the 20's and lifting my legs straight out in front of me. Gets a good abs burn going.

Word.

[shark]

Is that a friction issue though? I've got a friend who can hang the 45s on the beastmaker at the wall, but apparently on his one at home he can't touch them. I've never really seen the attraction of them to be honest - I feel if I can hold them I can hold them for a while, but on other days if I can't its not because im weaker, I just slip off.

[/quote]

Have you tried rubbing spit on your fingers rather than chalk - it seems to work better on wood slopers

[Sasquatch]

Have you tried rubbing spit on your fingers rather than chalk - it seems to work better on wood slopers

Not yet.  Maybe I'll try tonight.  I don't use chalk at all, just try to make sure my hands are clean.

[Pebblespanker]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but is your board hanging plumb vertical?? If not and it is slightly beyond the vertical then the 45s will be more like 48s etc and vice versa, tiny difference but maybe worth checking as it could make a significant difference i.e. hangable/not hangable 

[Sasquatch]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but is your board hanging plumb vertical?? If not and it is slightly beyond the vertical then the 45s will be more like 48s etc and vice versa, tiny difference but maybe worth checking as it could make a significant difference i.e. hangable/not hangable 

Yep.  Though of that myself 

Couldn't get on the board last night.  Ended up training on a different board.  It'll come eventually.

[Probes]

Ive found friction on wood is largely dependant on grain width, grain angle to surface, grade of sanding finish, wood type (massively so), relative humidity, prevailing wind speed & current lunar orientation.
Also to consider is contact area of hand ratio to body weight, moisture content of skin and condition of skin with particular reference to fingerprint depth.
All in all I think if you can quantify all of these you'll be getting somewhere. Needless to say training slopers on a fingerboard is very worth while exercise, especially for building stability in the wrist.
 

[Sasquatch]

Ive found friction on wood is largely dependant on grain width, grain angle to surface, grade of sanding finish, wood type (massively so), relative humidity, prevailing wind speed & current lunar orientation.
Also to consider is contact area of hand ratio to body weight, moisture content of skin and condition of skin with particular reference to fingerprint depth.
All in all I think if you can quantify all of these you'll be getting somewhere. Needless to say training slopers on a fingerboard is very worth while exercise, especially for building stability in the wrist.
 

So do you have a modeling program that can track the 10 variables and use the correct relative importance of each and thus quantify the effectiveness of my training?  Otherwise how am I to know if it's working?

[slackline]

You could use R or Octave to do the modelling, collecting all of the data is the challenge (needs to be done consistently across all subjects).

[Sasquatch]

You could use R or Octave to do the modelling, collecting all of the data is the challenge (needs to be done consistently across all subjects).

That doesn't give me the relative importance.  I'd have to do a controlled study with a statistically valid sample size to develop those. 

I'm too lazy to do that.

[Probes]

You could use R or Octave to do the modelling, collecting all of the data is the challenge (needs to be done consistently across all subjects).

That doesn't give me the relative importance.  I'd have to do a controlled study with a statistically valid sample size to develop those. 

I'm too lazy to do that.

Ah it sounds like relative importance index issue you have...  one of these might help... 

[slackline]

Didn't mean to post what I'd written, its too long, boring and of no interest to anyone.

[SA Chris]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but is your board hanging plumb vertical?? If not and it is slightly beyond the vertical then the 45s will be more like 48s etc and vice versa, tiny difference but maybe worth checking as it could make a significant difference i.e. hangable/not hangable 

Especially if what it's mounted on flexes when you load the board, even if it looks vertical when measured. Mine does that, which is what I'm taking as the reason I can barely hand the 45s!

[Nibile]

that's exactly what happens to mine. despite putting a couple of wooden block between the board and the wall, it still flexes when loaded, especially on the upper holds, slopers, etc.
it's just harder, so no problemo. for sure better this way than an easier angle.

[rodma]

it's just harder, so no problemo. for sure better this way than an easier angle.

 

[Sasquatch]

it's just harder, so no problemo. for sure better this way than an easier angle.

 

So I measured last night and sure enugh it was plumb, and sure enough when loaded it flexed. Time to get stronger and lighter