[tim palmer]

Like Barrows has said in the past, strength/power is a lazy man's game, endurance is not.

I would disagree, in my limited experience getting fit is much more simple than getting strong; provided you have a sufficient amount of time getting fit is just a question of getting mileage on routes.  Making strength gains always seems to require more discipline (i.e. doing more quality, and sacrificing quantity) and often risks injury.

[cowboyhat]

Like Barrows has said in the past, strength/power is a lazy man's game, endurance is not.

I would disagree, in my limited experience getting fit is much more simple than getting strong; provided you have a sufficient amount of time getting fit is just a question of getting mileage on routes.  Making strength gains always seems to require more discipline (i.e. doing more quality, and sacrificing quantity) and often risks injury.

This could be right though it depends on your body type.

I took Alex and Pauls point to be about what other people actually train though: if you take poll of all the kids in the wall; what are they training?

They aren't training endurance.

Training power is lazy; standing around chatting doing a one armer every minute or so is physically less demanding than trying to link two hard boulder problems or doing 4x4's.

[slackline]

Fuck that shit

For some many life often gets in the way of climbing.

[tim palmer]

I took Alex and Pauls point to be about what other people actually train though: if you take poll of all the kids in the wall; what are they training?

They aren't training endurance.

Training power is lazy; standing around chatting doing a one armer every minute or so is physically less demanding than trying to link two hard boulder problems or doing 4x4's.

Yeah I agree but I would say that these people aren't training and they aren't going to get any good. 

On the flip side if you go to your average indoor routing wall what do you see? 
People chatting, top roping the occasional 6b and eating cake, I wouldn't call that training either. 

[cowboyhat]

I took Alex and Pauls point to be about what other people actually train though: if you take poll of all the kids in the wall; what are they training?

They aren't training endurance.

Training power is lazy; standing around chatting doing a one armer every minute or so is physically less demanding than trying to link two hard boulder problems or doing 4x4's.

Yeah I agree but I would say that these people aren't training and they aren't going to get any good. 

Exactly, their problem is that they think they are training.

[Bonjoy]

Fuck that shit

For some many life often gets in the way of climbing.

For some many most life often gets in the way of climbing.

[tim palmer]

I took Alex and Pauls point to be about what other people actually train though: if you take poll of all the kids in the wall; what are they training?

They aren't training endurance.

Training power is lazy; standing around chatting doing a one armer every minute or so is physically less demanding than trying to link two hard boulder problems or doing 4x4's.

Yeah I agree but I would say that these people aren't training and they aren't going to get any good. 

Exactly, their problem is that they think they are training.

Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick I thought people were inferring that training strength was easier than stamina but what you are really saying is people are lazy and don't know how to train, which maybe /is true

[Ally Smith]

Fuck that shit

For some many life often gets in the way of climbing.

For some many most life often gets in the way of climbing.

I don't get the "I can't train like i used to, you know, work, life, gets in the way" bollocks.

Pull yer finger out you lazy bunch of tw*ts, skip the boozing, do your aerocap after you've bouldered and get yer crush on!

[erm, sam]

How old are you and how many children do you have?

[Ally Smith]

Mid thirties, demanding oil industry job with significant chunk of (inter)national travel, girlfriend who lives miles away, 2 cats, no sprog.

If you're psyched, you'll fit in the hard work and get the just rewards, otherwise you'll potter along and make excuses.

Tom is a family man, yet is putting in more training hours than me; he's mad for it.

Too many make excuses; I stand by my original comments.

[Luke Owens]

girlfriend who lives miles away

Does she know about it yet Ally?

[SA Chris]

Tom is a family man, yet is putting in more training hours than me; he's mad for it.

I agree that some people make excuses for not training hard, but comparing http://tomrandallclimbing.wordpress.com/ with one young sprog ( i think?) to the Average Joe and his spouse each working 40 plus hours a week, with 2 plus kids is probably not the fairest comparison.

[cowboyhat]

Tom is a family man, yet is putting in more training hours than me; he's mad for it.

I agree that some people make excuses for not training hard, but comparing http://tomrandallclimbing.wordpress.com/ with one young sprog ( i think?) to the Average Joe and his spouse each working 40 plus hours a week, with 2 plus kids is probably not the fairest comparison.

I think its a fair comparison: neither are professional climbers.

[Bonjoy]

Mid thirties, demanding oil industry job with significant chunk of (inter)national travel, girlfriend who lives miles away, 2 cats, no sprog.

A: You don't have a kid so you have NO excuse anyway.
B: Girlfriend lives miles away is a hindrance to climbing?!?! I think many would beg to differ.

[slackline]

Tom is a family man, yet is putting in more training hours than me; he's mad for it.

I agree that some people make excuses for not training hard, but comparing http://tomrandallclimbing.wordpress.com/ with one young sprog ( i think?) to the Average Joe and his spouse each working 40 plus hours a week, with 2 plus kids is probably not the fairest comparison.

I think its a fair comparison: neither are professional climbers.

Maybe not "professional climber" but works as a climbing coach and as a setter, and has some sponsorship (Rab at least, possibly Wild Country).  Whilst not directly allowing climbing, these roles facilitate spending more time training/climbing than someone doing 40 hours in an office (and perhaps an hour or so commuting each way).

Even outside work and kids there are other commitments that people feel obliged to fulfil.  My parents want to visit this weekend which has put a dampener on the plans I had to go climbing and other things.

[T_B]

Mid thirties, demanding oil industry job with significant chunk of (inter)national travel, girlfriend who lives miles away, 2 cats, no sprog.

A: You don't have a kid so you have NO excuse anyway.
B: Girlfriend lives miles away is a hindrance to climbing?!?! I think many would beg to differ.

If you've only got1 sprog then you've got no excuses 

[Tommy]

Not enough time is rarely an excuse, but the balance of making the sacrifice often is. It's just too unpleasant for some people.

I flipping love climbing and training and as such I feel like it's worth it. I almost always work a 40hr week (sometimes 60+ if weekends and wanting a trip away) and as such understand that I have to take quite a lot of unpleasant training hours. 6am and 11pm are very familiar! I've often been stuck down that smelly cellar til 2am psyched out of my mind and get up at 7am the next morning. It's not anything special, it's just that right now I feel like it's worth it :-)

Anyone can do it if they are prepared to lose out on other stuff. It's just that the other stuff can be really good - like friends, pubs, cinema, TV etc.

[Bonjoy]

Ally - The bottom line is that everyone has their own set of advantages and obstacles. Making judgements about other people's lives is bound to be mostly guesswork (to put it politely). I'd also challenge this idea that a time limited climber not training is lazy. Personally I rarely sacrifice climbing time to go training instead. It's a contious decision. I could climb a slightly higher grade by sacrificing climbing for training. To my mind it's a false economy. I'd rather do lots of climbing at grade X rather than less at X+1. Either way I'm still a crap climber in the grand scheme of things, why not enjoy being crap. Just to be clear I respect folk who think the other way, if my circumstances were different I might think the same.

[andyd]

Ally - The bottom line is that everyone has their own set of advantages and obstacles. Making judgements about other people's lives is bound to be mostly guesswork (to put it politely). I'd also challenge this idea that a time limited climber not training is lazy. Personally I rarely sacrifice climbing time to go training instead. It's a contious decision. I could climb a slightly higher grade by sacrificing climbing for training. To my mind it's a false economy. I'd rather do lots of climbing at grade X rather than less at X+1. Either way I'm still a crap climber in the grand scheme of things, why not enjoy being crap. Just to be clear I respect folk who think the other way, if my circumstances were different I might think the same.

What Bonjoy says.

Ally. Your situation sounds like a dream. I'd write more but I'm off climbing up stairs to read three bedtime books

[kelvin]

Anyone can do it if they are prepared to lose out on other stuff. It's just that the other stuff can be really good - like friends, pubs, cinema, TV etc.

This.

I like chatting too much, the day out means more than the climbing and I like crisps. Big bags. I've got a million injuries I can use as an excuse but generally, I feel it is laziness and lack of focus that holds me back from being the best I can be.

Yeah I have fun but boy do I get frustrated too and I can only blame myself for that.

[HaeMeS]

Mid thirties, demanding oil industry job with significant chunk of (inter)national travel, girlfriend who lives miles away, 2 cats, no sprog.

Lucky bastard! 

[Doylo]

Mid thirties, demanding oil industry job with significant chunk of (inter)national travel, girlfriend who lives miles away, 2 cats, no sprog.

Lucky bastard! 

Time to move further from the women and ditch the cats.

[Paul B]

Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick I thought people were inferring that training strength was easier than stamina but what you are really saying is people are lazy and don't know how to train, which maybe /is true

To clarify; I meant that the total amount of time you need to invest in strength and power type training is significantly less than the amount you need to invest into endurance work.

High intensity, low volume takes up considerably less time than high volume, low intensity by its very nature (and arguably requires more rest).

If you thought I meant that getting strong(er) was easier than getting fit(ter), I didn't.

[slackline]

Personally I rarely sacrifice climbing time to go training instead. It's a contious decision. I could climb a slightly higher grade by sacrificing climbing for training. To my mind it's a false economy. I'd rather do lots of climbing at grade X rather than less at X+1. Either way I'm still a crap climber in the grand scheme of things, why not enjoy being crap.

  and enjoy being "crap", I can still get on tons of challenging routes and make the most of the time when I'm not doing stuff for other people (i.e. working).

[a dense loner]

Since we're all clarifying Jon works 3 days a week, thats plenty of climbing time. You don't really need to train that much if you get all that time on rock. Like others have said its all someones conscious decision. I enjoy not climbing outside in England and don't miss it one bit