[petejh]

Mid thirties, demanding oil industry job with significant chunk of (inter)national travel, girlfriend who lives miles away, 2 cats, no sprog.

Lucky bastard! 

Time to move further from the women and ditch the cats.

This. Pussy won't get you up 8c.

[Bonjoy]

Since we're all clarifying Jon works 3 days a week, thats plenty of climbing time. You don't really need to train that much if you get all that time on rock. Like others have said its all someones conscious decision. I enjoy not climbing outside in England and don't miss it one bit

Yes and I look after Spike for 3 of the other days in the week. Still sound like plenty of climbing time?

[abarro81]

I've lost who's arguing about what now, but if people with kids are moaning that's kind of like moaning that you've not got enough time for climbing because you spend all your time surfing. Choices innit.

[Moo]

Spoken like somone who's never had to have the conversation about having kids or not.

[Doylo]

You've got to have sex to have a kid too

[slackline]

I've lost who's arguing about what now, but if people with kids are moaning that's kind of like moaning that you've not got enough time for climbing because you spend all your time surfing. Choices innit.

No ones moaning about kids reducing the amount of time they have.

Whats being said is that some people have other responsibilities outside of climbing that enrich their lives, whether thats kids, a partner  (who doesn't climb but you enjoy spending time with), a job (which helps with the climbing trips to exotic locations, substitute this with Phd if you wish, although the money isn't as good), others have different activities/hobbies such as surfing, reading, cycling/mountain biking that they enjoy too.

For many when they do have the opportunity to climb or train the former will win because for them its more enjoyable than staring a stop-watch whilst dangling from a finger board or going round and round in circles in the Furnace.  At the same time those who are time-limited in when they can get out climbing can benefit from squeezing in a little directed training in a half-hour session, but they won't ever let this out-weigh the opportunity to go outdoors and climb.

You're pretty psyched for climbing and training Alex, why are you bothering continuing with your Phd?  Why not sack it off train, like a mother-fucker and realise your full potential?  Choices innit.

[andyd]

Since we're all clarifying Jon works 3 days a week, thats plenty of climbing time. You don't really need to train that much if you get all that time on rock. Like others have said its all someones conscious decision. I enjoy not climbing outside in England and don't miss it one bit

Yes and I look after Spike for 3 of the other days in the week. Still sound like plenty of climbing time?

If Spike is a child, then right on. Looking after the kids is more difficult than going to work. (But more fun).

[a dense loner]

I only used Jon as an example since he was saying he prefers to climb than train, I was pointing out that if you live as far from the grit as the wall you can take the kid out quite easily and it's nice for both rather than have the kid inhaling chalk at a wall while dad trains. My comments though directed at Jon were not really "directed" at Jon, more there are lots of dads out there who get out and about

[petejh]

I get the impression that climbing overall is increasingly becoming a game for the middle classes with decent levels of disposable income; I think an offshoot of this is a new sub-genre of climbers who can afford to target long endurance routes as a way of chasing higher grades on paper, where in the UK they wouldn't be strong enough. Except for a very few elite, or those who move abroad, if you want to excel at long endurance sport climbs over a period of time beyond academic life it seems almost a necessity to have a good income (or a trust fund) to pay for all the foreign travel (or be retired!).
This hints at the reasons a lot of the best UK climbers of 15 -20 years ago had unconventional private/social lives - lots of travelling and dirt-bagging around UK and European crags was required. These days it's easier to climb at a relatively high level in the UK while still having a conventional full-time job, as long as you're decently strong - due to there being walls everywhere and more sport crags allowing opportunities for mileage for the time-poor where previously you'd have to spend a whole day getting it on trad routes.

[Bonjoy]

Dense - I can only speak for myself but I find climbing and childcare don't mix. In four and a half years I've only climbed once properly whilst in soul charge of t' youth (that includes the wall). Maybe when he's older, safer unattended and has a higher boredom threshold 
To be clear I'm only saying what is the case, not complaining about it. It's another of life's choices, I'd rather be a good father that a good climber if it comes down to choosing one or the other.

[Stubbs]

And there was me thinking that sport climbers went on holiday to climb nice quality routes on nice holds in the sun in beautiful places, now I understand it's all about them using their disposable income to chase the grades!

[petejh]

Well, of course both. I go abroad for the sun, great routes and fitness boost like nearly everyone else. Just thinking aloud about the emergence of a genre of climbers who specifically target their hardest climbs on foreign crags, due to the style - fitness more than strength. I think (?) this is a relatively new phenomenon, at least for climbers below the elite level, and it's a game that needs significant income to be able to play beyond teens/early twenties when responsibilities/i.e. 'overheads' are low.
Not saying it's good/bad/whatever. Just a 'thing'.

[jstrongman]

I have got a wife (who does not climb), two kids (3yrs and 6 months), my own business and I have been building our house for the last 4 yrs, which I have pretty much finished, but am now onto the shed/workshop.

As it is my own business I have a beastmaker and a set of kettlebells at work, so can use lunchbreaks for training.

I have come to the realisation that focused training and taking the long view are the key.  This means I cannot do everything I want (trad, sport and bouldering) so currently and foreseeable future bouldering and strength training are the way forward. With my life commitments there is absolutely no point trying to get sport climbing fit, for one I get to climb outdoors once or twice a week for about 2hrs at a time, by the time i uncoil the ropes, I would be pumped and it would be time to go home.

But looking at the long view strength takes much longer to build, so while time is short, I will keep building the base finger and core strength, it doesn't even matter if my weight is slightly on the high side as when eventually I do get some more time, it is just a matter of losing some weight and getting fit.
This way I am still pushing and not trying to just maintain my current standards, which, keeps things interesting and the psyche high. Also with kids my negative training partying, festivals and general boozing has gone out the window, so I am recovering from training quicker and am probably stronger than I have ever been.

You have just got to be realistic about your time and set your goals accordingly.

[JohnM]

Ally, you didn't have a girlfriend 2 weeks ago?  Therefore, you can't use that as a variable in your current climbing vs. commitment status!

[tim palmer]

Except for a very few elite, or those who move abroad, if you want to excel at long endurance sport climbs over a period of time beyond academic life it seems almost a necessity to have a good income (or a trust fund) to pay for all the foreign travel (or be retired!).
 

I think if you want to climb endurance style routes you have to go abroad because they are vanishingly rare in the UK.  Unless you live near malham, kilnsey and ?the diamond I think climbing enduro routes is going to be expensive as travelling/accommodation/food in the UK is so expensive, in fact going abroad for a week maybe a little cheaper than a domestic trip.

[erm, sam]

Ally, you didn't have a girlfriend 2 weeks ago?  Therefore, you can't use that as a variable in your current climbing vs. commitment status!

When he mentioned he had 2 cats I thought he was reaching, add in the recent girlfriend and hmmm. Ally, is your "demanding job in the oil industry" really a zero hours petrol station job?

[tomtom]

Distance to the crag is a factor too... For me its (mostly) an hour or more away - which turns a 'quick evening/afternoon out' into 4-6 hours... (closer to day out really..)

[Ally Smith]

Ah shit; I should have kept my gob shut 

If i'd taken a moment to gather my thoughts before spraying i'd have said something along the lines of:

"33, widower, no sprogs, full-time job. Relatively cash rich, time poor compared to my student days, when I was time rich and cash poor yet didn't appreciate/make best use of my time."

Lots of things changed when my partner passed away, in particular my attitude to getting shit done. I'm highly motivated for what I do, and ignore lots of the periphery life things like cleaning, DIY & watching TV. (Anyone who has seen the state  of my house will attest to this).

I don't berate anyone's life choices; but I can't stand those who coast through life without grabbing it by the horns and making the most of what they've got.

Right now, I feel like i can still fit more in. I've just started seeing someone. We're both busy people; i'm confident we'll make it work. Internet trawling/social media will probably be the next thing to fall by the wayside!




And yes, petejh is referring to me and JohnM when he's talking about going to people going abroad to try project sat their limit. Fisheye plays to my strengths and 3 day trips to Spain fit well with my work and leave allowances.

For now i'm fortunate enough to have the cash to be able to do this, so i'm going to keep chasing my dream. Who knows, tomorrow i might get diagnosed with a shitty disease like cancer, and i for one don't want to have any regrets...

[Stubbs]

"Yeah, that's me, taking the bull by the horns. It's how I handle business. It's a metaphor but it actually happened"

I assumed PeteJH must have been directing his musings at someone in particular, all the people I know who sport climb have made their hardest ascents on home crags!

[petejh]

Woah hang on! I was not talking about one person although yes, I'm obviously aware of Ally's fish eye mission. I said I think that it's more common than than it used to be for climbers to acheive their top grades on foreign crags; and that to be in a position to follow that goal, for most people, requires money (or lots of time, e.g. student life). This was linked to me saying how I thought climbing seems to me to be increasingly a middle-class game.
(Is this someones blog btw?!)

[Doylo]

I've got the time and money to chase those holiday ticks but I wouldn't have a missus for very long. Hang on...... 

[slackline]

(Is this someones blog btw?!)

No its the blog pile which pulls in others blogs via RSS feeds and mirrors them as individual threads to which people can respond.

Tom's blog isn't getting cluttered with this discourse, just the mirror of it here is.

[abarro81]

Whilst I see where you're coming from, it's worth pointing out that the British climber with far and away the best foreign sport ticklist is neither rich nor a student, he just does bits and bobs of rope access, used to teach English a bit, and is very good at not spending much money (I'm talking about Tom B, for the avoidance of doubt)... so there clearly is an alternative route, same as the old-school method - live in Europe and spend very little money.

[abarro81]

You're pretty psyched for climbing and training Alex, why are you bothering continuing with your Phd?  Why not sack it off train, like a mother-fucker and realise your full potential?  Choices innit.

Indeed. I wasn't meaning to judge choices, just saying 'fuck that' to climbing 2 days per week and not using holiday allowance on going on trip abroad. That's certainly not the right choice for me..

[abarro81]

Except for a very few elite, or those who move abroad,

sorry, just noticed this, ignore my post 2 above