[Andy W]

So what are they like and how do they compare size wise with dragons, bearing in mind I've got two pairs of Dragons in 7.5 and they are both different!

[b3n99]

I have only just got my pair in the last week so can't judge fairly on performance yet (although they do feel good  ). I sized mine exacty the same as dragons but they may be a little tighter, no more than one haf size down though.

[cha1n]

I just received a pair of these. I wanted something quick on and off for bouldering but have to say that I'm not impressed with them.

I ordered a 10 as R&R recommended going .5 down from dragons and they are definitely longer than my dragons and there is also a pretty severe downturn at the tip of the blackwing which will add length when straighted. That said, they feel about the correct length when they're on my feet.

The heel is from the Team which I thought was pants on the Team but hoped they'd tweaked it a bit - they haven't. The heel has a fair amount of dead space and the (very slippery) material section of the heel is in a critical location which may interfere on certain heel hooks. Also, the stitching seems to be of poor quality and the shoe was covered in various offcuts of fibres, presumably used in the manufacturing process.

I think that if you are considering getting this shoe that you may aswell get the team, which although they never suited one of my feet, was a fair superior shoe to these. I'll be sending these babies straight back and ordering another pair of Dragons!

[Krank]

on the other hand these are the best fitting shoe i have ever tried on, i really liked them. horses for courses i guess

[Eddies]

on the other hand these are the best fitting shoe i have ever tried on, i really liked them. horses for courses i guess

"LIKED" How come you no longer have them Krank!?

[Krank]

 i got rid of a pair of arrowheads cos they were to small, tried the blackwings at a boot demo in stoke and they were lovely.

[cha1n]

Have you ever tried on the team or dragon on, Krank?

The blackwings are basically a team without the toe rubber and with better rubber on the sole (Stealth HF vs. Stealth Mystique). I only tried them because the team didn't fit one of my feet and let's face it, Stealth HF is the best rubber on the market.

I accept that they are a decent shoe (I did order a pair afterall) but I definitely think the hierarchy, in order of greatness is:

1st: Dragon
2nd: Team (because of the shite heel)
3rd: Blackwing (because it has HF, otherwise insert arrowheads, quantums, anasazi, etc here).

Anyone who disagrees didn't try the team on before buying these. 

[b3n99]

After two weeks in font with these they are definetly my favourite shoe ever!!! Much more of an allround shoe than the dragon but still with the downturn to help with the steep stuff. The heel fits snuggly on mine and i find it more secure than the dragon which now seems a little narrow and shallow compared. Not quite sure what heel hooks you would use the material section for but it suits me as i have a wide heel and this section means the fit is a lot better for me.

[quote}
Anyone who disagrees didn't try the team on before buying these. 
[/quote]

I tried on the heel, after about half an hour getting into them i found them far too soft and a weird shape, they also seem to go floppy and lose their precision very quickly.

Definetly recommend the blackwings, cross between anasazis and dragons and with good toe friction!

[cha1n]

Ha, hey Ben it's Ross!

It was you who inspired me to order a pair of the blackwings!

I guess it's just a footshape thing. I have a very narrow heel but am quite wide at the front so the dragon is perfect for me. Not sure about the blackwing being more of an all rounder though, I find that the dragon is good for anything really. Even for slabs if you loosen the laces around the toe area a bit. For heel hooks, I meant the type when you've got the whole inside of the shoe against the rock (including the rand) or when you have the heel tilted quite inward on a dish (like on Noir Desir. Yes, yes, I know you did Noir Desir in yours!!!).

It is true that the team is a softer shoe but I prefer the extra 'feel' on steep indoor bouldering (which is what I wanted the blackwings for). Plus there's a technique for getting teams on which you get used to.

The blackwing is certainly more versatile than the team (which is designed for steep ground only) and on second thoughts would describe it as an arrowhead/team cross with better rubber.

Still think that the Dragon is the daddy though. 

[Krank]

ive never tried teams or dragons, but i would if i was after some new shoes for steepness. unfortunately everytime i need new steep shoes there seems to be an offer on scarpa's so i end up with them

[thrashhard]

When i was trying out the blackwing and dragon in the shop last week i nearly couldn´t get my feet into a UK 8 (is this a 42 EU?) but the dragon in the same size fits me perfect. Could have gone 0.5 smaller in the dragon but i haven´t.
The Blackwing felt and looked a lot more narrow in the forefoot. A lot.
And the heel doesn´t fit me.
But the most disappointing thing about the blackwing was that there was no "toepower" in the big toe. The feeling of beeing able to stand on everything (which anasazis and the dragon have).
The big toe area felt a lot different from the dragons and was somehow weird and weak.
If you´re looking for a velcro shoe go for the arrowheads. The arrowhead is the better blackwing. They look nearly the same but the arrowhead has more downturn, a better shape and a better bigtoe-angle which means more toepower.
The heel on both (arrowhead and blackwing) is poor fitting.

[joe dobson]

I've had a pair of Blackwings for nearly 8 months and now and can say they are PANTS. The, worst downturned shoe I've ever had. They fit me well but its far, far to soft for a downturned shoe; I can fold them in half length ways and then roll it in a ball. Stay away from these shoes.

[thrashhard]

What did you expect from a downturned shoe with mystique/HF rubber?
The whole thing behind downturn is to build softer shoes.
I can fold my Rockettes as well but they are one of the best shoes i´ve ever had.

[boulderingbacon]

i have a pair of black wings and really like them. not sure why people are saying there too soft for steep stuff because thats exactly what you want. there not an edging shoe and there not trying to be either. heel is better than the dragons and there just convenient to get on and off. half size down from dragons works well. i would highly recommend them if they fit right.

[cha1n]

It sounds like these fit people with wider heels as the dragon fits my narrow heel perfectly and I don't think you can beat an all rubber heel.

I agree that shoes for steep ground should be softer but i think these shoes have missed a trick by not having toe rubber. As for the quick on/off factor, I guess I'm lucky that the dragons fit well enough that I rarely have to lace them. From my observations, most dragon wearers I see don't tend to lace them either.

Also, the dragons are great on steep walls and if you crank the laces up, edge very well. I reckon the blackwings (and quantums) will be discontinued fairly quickly..

[b3n99]

Blackwings have got much better toe area for toe hooks than the dragons by a country mile!! I'm finding the two together at my disposal as a perfect combination, and mine edge well!

[cha1n]

You can get blackwings with what I assume is a dragon(ish) heel... The women's version!

http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/five-ten-blackwing-womens-p-1489.html

Only for the lucky ones with small feet..