UKBouldering.com

Deadlifting (Read 240305 times)

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#700 Re: Deadlifting
January 31, 2018, 11:01:00 pm
It's not so bad, it's more of a Romanian than a pure deadlift. There's not much quads activation. It's fine.
On another side, SACK THOSE TRAINERS!
Soft shoes like those are dangerous for your ankles, knees, hips and spine, with over 100 kg on!
Buy lifting shoes if you're into it, or a pair of minimalist shoes (old school All Star), or lift barefoot.

measles23

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +45/-1
#701 Re: Deadlifting
February 01, 2018, 09:12:25 pm
Like these SABO Russian bad boys:



No belt Fiend?? You must have faith in your back not exploding... I belt up for everything >100kg and never regretted spending £££ on good quality (Zulu detonator)

Good lift  :) ditto lagers, 170 is heavy - now the fireman has “retired” from the gym we need some more peeps to fly the flag


teestub

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2574
  • Karma: +166/-4
  • Cyber Wanker
#702 Re: Deadlifting
February 01, 2018, 09:17:17 pm
Do you use straps above a certain weight too Measles?

What's the deal with belts? I don't use one, but I'm trying to get a stronger posterior chain for climbing, not lift as much as possible.

measles23

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +45/-1
#703 Re: Deadlifting
February 01, 2018, 11:40:04 pm
Do you use straps above a certain weight too Measles?

I did briefly use straps, and found maybe a 10kg uplift with them at the time. I stopped because I thought I might compete in powerlifting one day and you can’t use straps for unequipped lifting..
Straps stop grip being the weak point, however with good technique I do think for most climbers grip is not likely to be the weak link.. I use an alternating grip to neutralise roll-out, and allow my fingers to open up a little, rather than overgripping with a full fist; some peeps use the agonising hook grip - I’ve lifted 250 off blocks so confident my grip’s ok, and I suspect open handed strength converts well to bar grip strength for climbers, ie I wouldn’t bother unless you’re convinced your grip lets your DL down.. (also it will reduce the training value for open hand climbing strength)

What's the deal with belts?

Belts protect your back; I had endless problems with back spasm and prob small disc herniations/sciatica when I started lifting. I told myself I wasn’t worthy of a proper belt until I’d lifted 200, using some shitty neoprene back support - just stupid really - belt didn’t give me an uplift, but just bags of confidence to go for it; even with clean technique DL puts an enormous torsional load on your lumbar spine, and the slightest loss of concentration/form can fuck you up..
I’ve said before I thought DL transferred well to climbing post chain strength up to about 2.5BW; beyond that it’s not made any difference, but that’s still plenty of weight to fuck your back with!

I'm trying to get a stronger posterior chain for climbing, not lift as much as possible.

That how it starts... then the disease gets under your skin - everyone wants to lift as much as possible  ;)

teestub

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2574
  • Karma: +166/-4
  • Cyber Wanker
#704 Re: Deadlifting
February 02, 2018, 08:36:45 am
Thanks man, will wad you when I have posted enough!

Yeah 2.5 is what I’m interested in getting to, although I’m sure that’s what everyone says to start with!

Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13413
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
#705 Re: Deadlifting
February 02, 2018, 09:34:19 am
Nah everyone says 2XBW cos it's a neater equation, only beasts like Measlez go much further....

Straps: When I first used straps I found it added maybe 20kg to my lift. When I first used alternating grip with a bit of chalk i found it added......20kg to my lift. Alternating feels weird at first tho. I find a comfy bar helps quite a bit, girthy with a decent but non-aggressive gnurl (sp).

Quote
No belt Fiend?? You must have faith in your back not exploding...

Hmmm. Maybe. Not sure I like relying on faith. It's a bit like slackline and his feverish faith in the omnipotence of current science.....something could change...

Okay so I have worked up pretty slowly from 60/80kg to 160kg over....4 years maybe?? In that time I have had some mild aches / doms after lifting but no tweaks twinges nor major stiffness etc. So I guess I have worked up to it. As I say I also do keep a much straighter back on lighter lifts and focus on that, and am pretty careful not to push hard if my body doesn't feel good. It's a good question tho, I feel a bit uncomfortable answering "well it's worked fine so far".  Anyone else got any feedback on that??

Nibble I *might* try barefoot just for you, but I don't feel any bad effects from the shoes, and the back thing is more of a concern. About the lift form, when should more quad activation occur?

P.S. Will wad measlez on your behalf mr tub, not that it makes jack shit with new board..........>:(

Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13413
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
#706 Re: Deadlifting
February 02, 2018, 09:40:53 am
Just looked through this thread to find my timescale, it was 80 > 160 kg in 3 years.

Also found some gems like this:

Quote from: measles 23
Jesus its quite intense - is it normal to feel a bit dizzy after? The bumpy boys reckoned it might have had something to do with forgetting to breathe for several minutes from the shock..

Also the gym scene takes some getting used to - its a bit much to go from feeling like the fat cnut at the crag to being the 7 stone (I wish..) weakling - I could taste the pity - I'm sure next time they're gonna strap me to the bench and force feed me whey and 'roids

Plus the glory days of Mark S doing 180kg lifts and warning us it could be quite addictive.

measles23

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +45/-1
#707 Re: Deadlifting
February 02, 2018, 08:52:02 pm
Happy memories!

I guess a steady progression like that is much better for your back - I think I lifted 180 after only 3 or 4 sessions, but then every time I lifted it I put my back out so ended up plateauing at 180 for 2 yrs.. only really started progressing when I got a good belt and switched to sumo..

Belt is not just protective; it also provides something to brace your core against.. there are a couple of big lifters who go beltless and call their core their belt, but these are guys with 60 inch waists!

I’ll wad you guys back for:

1. teestub for mentioning posterior chain, for it is the key to the mystery of climbing core strength - 90% of videos and articles on core only talk about anterior abdominal stuff like leg raises and L sits and the like, in the belief that core is about getting your feet back on steep rock. But who the heck can’t lift their legs up from hanging, even if they need some swing??? Core for me is about creating the tension when your feet are back on, and that is posterior chain all the way (fingers and shoulders too s’pose) And what is the kingmaker exercise for posterior chain??  (actually prob skwat but DL does very nicely)

2. fiend for realising that heavy metal + heavy metal = muthafuckin heavy metal squared :punk:

3. Its a DL love-in innit xx

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#708 Re: Deadlifting
February 03, 2018, 09:21:02 am
Nibble I *might* try barefoot just for you, but I don't feel any bad effects from the shoes, and the back thing is more of a concern. About the lift form, when should more quad activation occur?
Hey beast!
First of all, I'm positive that soft shoes are a big risk. You may not notice the diffecrence because you're too busy not collapsing under the bar, but your feet, ankles, knees, hips and lower back are undergoing lots of micro adjustments and movements because the sole is unstable. Your body has to compensate the instability and that's no good. You don't want to find yourself, in a few years from now, bicep-curling on a Bosu ball, don't you?
Try barefoot (a bit extreme) or with flat and hard soles shoes. Then you'll look up in the sky and you'll say: Forgive me Lord for I doubted Nibile's word.

Then: disclaimer, I can't do it. I can't deadlift properly and I will probably use only the trap bar. Anyway, as many of us, you shoot your hips up before even leaving the ground with the bar. This allows us to clear the knees in an easier way. I've read lots on the deadlift setup and execution angles, and the key is that during the first part of the lift, there should be equal extension at the knees and hips, with the torso (shoulders) going up vertically without changing its setup angle to the ground. Then, after clearing the knees, there should be hip hinge and all posterior chain activation to the lock.
It's as difficult to perform as beautiful to watch.

Finally: belts. I think that lots of people - including myself when I started moving plates around in a gym, aged 15 - misunderstand the aim of belts. I used to think that a belt should provide back support, in order not to round the lower back. I was wrong.
If this were the aim, belts would be slim on the back and stiff and high profiled on the front, to avoid you crouching forward under load.
The aim of belts is to help create core tension via internal pressure. Instead of simply holding the breath and stiffening all core muscles, with a belt the lifter actually pushes his abs out against the belt, to increase internal pressure.
This is why I think that most lifters shoudn't use it, firstly because they don't know how to use it properly, then because they're not even close to creating enough internal pressure on their own, this meaning that they shouldn't train with certain weights.

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#709 Re: Deadlifting
February 03, 2018, 09:32:50 am
I’ll wad you guys back for:

1. teestub for mentioning posterior chain
Sorry guys, couldn't reply earlier.

No, that's not one of the articles that I've read, in any case as OMM said, it makes sense to avoid such a movement pattern in a warm up!
On the matter of specificity, or real world function, my experience is that the kind of core tension required for climbing is far more complex than the one that can be developed with front levers or windscreen wipers or even ab-wheel.
All these excercises train the ability of "pushing" yourself up against gravity, and do not place a serious effort on the legs.
In climbing on very overhanging terrain, this kind of ability - although crucial in terms of pure strength - is not enough, because the specific climbing effort requires that we stay rigid but actually pushing our body down on the footholds, rather than pushing it up against the rock.
So, down to the hips it's mostly the frontal part of the torso that bears the effort, but from the hips down, it's all the posterior chain, from erectors (that are involved in the levers anyway) to the glutes, hamstrings and calves.
I haven't read it all either, but judging by the pics enlightening the muscles (the abs), it could be that it completely overlooks glutes and hamstrings.
I've found out, by training specifically core tension on my board, that staying put on steep terrain with small feet involves tons of pulling with glutes and hamstrings, along with abs.
Abs work only the lower torso, stopping at the pelvis, but then you have your legs that have to stay tight to maintain contact with the footholds. And abs don't move legs.
And the usual demonstrative video. Glutes and hamstrings engage to push the pelvis up after putting the foot on the foothold.

8) 8) 8)
 ;) ;) ;)

Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13413
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
#710 Re: Deadlifting
February 03, 2018, 10:34:03 am
Cheers for the further info guys :)

Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13413
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
#711 Re: Deadlifting
February 04, 2018, 07:48:29 pm

2. fiend for realising that heavy metal + heavy metal = muthafuckin heavy metal squared :punk:


 ;D I must confess I was listening to hard dnb and gabber at the gym today, but I was wearing a Behemoth vest at least  :punk:

I rewatched your 3BW video (scrolling back through the thread), that is some serious effort put in, nice one.

Nibbles I went for an easy session today, sets 5 x 100, 120, 140 and back again, I was focusing more on a straighter back and driving with the legs, which worked for the lower two weights but 140 is when it starts getting hard for me and I lose form a bit. Will keep working on it. And, *bonus* once I remembered I did the 2nd lot of 140 and down with just socks on, and it felt a little bit better, just felt like I could feel the balance better in my feet. Nothing major but I will keep doing that if only to stop you telling me off when I post a 180 video in 5 years time.

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#712 Re: Deadlifting
February 04, 2018, 08:46:17 pm
 ;D  ;D
I've got new lenses and can read the small lines!
Glad it helped!

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5776
  • Karma: +621/-36
#713 Re: Deadlifting
February 22, 2018, 03:33:54 pm
Can anyone on this thread point me to research that shows a long-term increase in testosterone, or GH / IGF, as a result of heavy lifting?

All I can find are studies that show an acute increase i.e. at time of lifting, 15mins post and up to 60 mins post max. Thereafter a return to baseline levels. And some studies showing a temporary decline for a few days after a heavy lifting sesh.

Nothing I can find points to any increase beyond 60 mins.

measles23

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +45/-1
#714 Re: Deadlifting
February 23, 2018, 10:22:36 pm
Yeah nibs I prob got that posterior chain shit from you in the first place!

Sorry Pete no idea, sounds like you’ve done more of a literature search than I have...



This:


Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#715 Re: Deadlifting
February 24, 2018, 08:51:41 am
Yeah nibs I prob got that posterior chain shit from you in the first place!
;D
Nevermind, I was just being a bit pedantic!
Video is nice.
I can't deadlift at the moment, I'm sticking to power cleans and going heavy on the farmer's walk. Let's see if I can start again next year.

measles23

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +45/-1
#716 Re: Deadlifting
February 24, 2018, 04:41:11 pm
I can't deadlift at the moment
Lore I get the feeling you’ve spent the last 6 years of this thread slowly circling around the issue, gathering great depths of knowledge, mastering loads of ancillary exercises and just waiting, biding your time until everything is just right, then one day your body will tell you “it is time” and you’ll walk into your nearest gym, lift 250kg off the floor and calmly walk out again!

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#717 Re: Deadlifting
February 25, 2018, 11:18:01 am
 :lol: :lol: :lol:
That would be awesome, but I can't really see it happening! I'd love to work my way up to 3xBW though. With the trap bar I'm currently playing a little bit with setups: when I do Farmer's I lift from blocks, handles at the knees, trying to feel the difference between a regular deadlift stance and a posterior chain focused one. Shins bent, shins vertical. It's cool, I think my quads are still strong, when I go back to deadlifts I must learn to loft off with quands rather than just posterior chain.
At the moment, despite not climbing, all my training is somehow training oriented, so I'm leaving my quads behind, also because they've always been very reactive to training, both in terms of power and mass. I injured my right toe a few weeks back, because of this: I was doing a set of high jumps as a final recruitment before my last power cleans set, did the first couple of jumps and was feeling bouncy, so went to an all out effort in order to touch the ceiling of the garage. Did it, but forgot to land properly and with flat shoes I broke my toe...
It's hard because one one hand I'd love to just concentrate on lifting really heavy, on the other hand I want to climb my board projects and I'm still improving in finger strength, so I'm riding the wave and don't want to drop it.
It's both fun and strange, because I find unexpected improvements on previous unexpected improvements, like, for instance the 1,5 cm edge one arm hangs. Just one year or so ago I could't do them, and I was strong on the board nonetheless, so...
I can't wait to be able to climb "strong" again. Or at least to try hard! I'll probably have the movement skills of a nuclear carrier ship, but I have to start again at some point!
I's fun because it seems that in the last couple of years all my closest (climbing) friends drifted to lifting (work, family, etc.), so instead of booking hotels in Chironico we buy plates on eBay and have lifting sessions instead of board sessions! Very proud none of us bought a bicycle. Well one did, but it's gathering dust after two rides.
Anyway, I miss climbing. A new gym just opened one hour and a half away from Siena, a friend of mine went and told me it's big, nice and full of easy problems, so maybe I can start from there, hoping not to find myself trying one movers on crimps in overhangs after 15 minutes!

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#718 Re: Deadlifting
February 25, 2018, 03:52:54 pm
This is what I'm after at the moment.

Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13413
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
#719 Re: Deadlifting
February 26, 2018, 10:25:01 am
I's fun because it seems that in the last couple of years all my closest (climbing) friends drifted to lifting (work, family, etc.), so instead of booking hotels in Chironico we buy plates on eBay and have lifting sessions instead of board sessions! Very proud none of us bought a bicycle. Well one did, but it's gathering dust after two rides.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Get back on those easy problems tho!


Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13413
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
#721 Re: Deadlifting
March 13, 2018, 09:24:06 am
I think you'll be a pretty strong woman when you finally get on with the weightlifting, tt :)

yetix

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 610
  • Karma: +33/-0
#722 Re: Deadlifting
August 14, 2018, 02:08:35 pm
Recent finger injury has meant I've been working on my DL and BP a lot again recently! DL is upto 137.5 (2.15*BW) and feeling super psyched about it! Nice to have to something to work at through the injury!

Fiend

Offline
  • *
  • _
  • forum hero
  • Abominable sex magick practitioner and climbing heathen
  • Posts: 13413
  • Karma: +676/-67
  • Whut
#723 Re: Deadlifting
August 14, 2018, 03:33:52 pm
Good effort you skinny fucker! Definitely helps with work-around-injury positivity.

gollum

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: +24/-0
#724 Re: Deadlifting
August 18, 2018, 12:33:38 pm
Managed 172.5 Sumo at 68kilos this week and was really please. Not been deadlifting for big weight for a while but rather have been doing triples and doubles at around 150 both Conventional and Sumo.

Have been doing rack pulls for weight however and have found that that has helped massively on the lock out and can definitely feel my back engaging.

I've never really got on with a belt although I do own one for big sets of deficits and use straps over 160k as not really trying to train my grip with this.



 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal