[john horscroft]

Hope this is the right place for this, a little interview I did with Niall about his magnum opus, Boulder Britain.  It may be your only chance to see said tome being used as a weapon....

[rehab21]

Good work - time to change this icon:  ?

I'd offer waddage, but I'm underqualified for that. You'll have to make do with 

Jim

[john horscroft]

Good work - time to change this icon:  ?

I'd offer waddage, but I'm underqualified for that. You'll have to make do with 

Jim

Cheers Jim!  Have to agree that an emoticon of Grimer smacking someone round the head with Boulder Britain would be a fine addition... 

[cheque]

I like the philosophy on new routing.

[dave]

Any chance of a subtitled version?

[Bonjoy]

I like the philosophy on new routing.

To be honest as a fairly prolific new router/boulderer I think what Grimer says comes across a bit dismissive of other people’s motivations. Having worked with G on guidebooks in the past I know he’s a champion of the obscure so I suspect it wasn’t meant that way. This is no doubt hugely over analysing a throw away remark, I’ll say sorry now in advance for that, but I’m going to press on anyway because it’s a good excuse to ramble on about myself (and there goes me trying to argue we new routers aren't self obsessed  ).

Literally and metaphorically I guess it depends where you draw the line. There certainly are pointless claims of worthless none-lines on already saturated buttresses, the detailing of which undermines the aesthetics of the lines around them and I dare say, as chief guide writer G gets to see and filter out a load of these which the rest of us are spared. I hope not too many of my things fall into this ballpark, maybe some do.

Whilst a primitive drive to seek recognition is no doubt a motivating aspect of new routing (and indeed all climbing if we’re being truly honest) it’s far from the only, or main driver for me or the ‘activists’ I’ve met over the years.

In my view there’s also a kind of egotism in setting an over high quality bar on what new climbs you’re willing to put your name to. It’s something I’ve felt myself when developing new venues where it makes sense to clean and climb the stocking fillers. I’ve felt a slight unwillingness to dilute the quality of ‘my collection’. But then I’ve gone on to do the fillers anyway, because though they might make me look like an obsessive claim-anything ego-monkey to the uncharitable, a. I will enjoy climbing them (I like doing obscure stuff new or repeat) and b. I think they will be enjoyed by others too and will make a more rounded experience at the crag, you know, gradual warm-up, do a bunch of stuff, get a feel for a place, rather than work one ‘destination problem’ do it, then leave.

To say, I’ll only do a new climb if it’s something I would climb if it was already recorded, is to deny the fact that there is added value in climbing something nobody else has (other than a desire to see your name in guidebooks) and suggests that you can always tell a good climb without actually climbing it. When I find myself scrabbling around in the mud on rainy days instead of climbing indoors on a nice comfy wall I do have cause to ponder my own motivations. I always come to the conclusion that I’m there because fundamentally I love what I’m doing. I love the process of looking and finding, not knowing how good/hard/possible something is until I do it, comparing how something turns out in contrast with how I thought it would, seeing a clean chalked climb at the end where before there was just rock and then thinking of a silly name. The whole thing is a joyful puzzle from start to finish. If anything, rather than being the prize, it’s the telling other people about stuff bit which lets the game down, everything else about it is brilliant. I might get as much out of doing a no star new route as repeating a three star classic, I’m glad this is true as even though I know it means some folk will peg me as a self-obsessed loon, it also means that I’ve got vast amounts more fun out of climbing in the same area year after year.


BTW I did enjoy the interview and the new book is a real treasure trove!

[grimer]

Hey BJ, that was a throwaway remark, and perhaps it does sound dismissive when I hear it said. It wasn't meant to be so, and i don't actually really believe it that much myself, it being more an outlook on what I think in terms of new routing, personally.

[Bonjoy]

Thought so. I think I had the argument already formulated in mind as I do think some people are of the view that everything worthwhile has already been done ergo anyone still new routeing (unless they're at the cutting edge) is just after seeing their name on paper. As nobody would say that to my face I never get the opportunity to counter the point, so cheers for giving me the opportunity to expound  .

[cheque]

I hope not too many of my things fall into this ballpark, maybe some do.

I don't think you have anything to worry about!

My comment was inspired by my own crap new routing experiences (even the one I claimed I wouldn't climb again) and reading about the bizarre filler non-lines claimed in the past at Millstone etc.

[Offwidth]

Its good to see the man so relaxed about the book. I could almost hear a mental "...and breathe...."

From my experience on new routes (checking many of the variations on descent routes on Stanage .... and in my early days being guilty of generating some of them) there are good ones that add a little to our world of joy, forgettable ones and ones that make you want to cry with frustration "why?" . From a guidebook perspective we also had to stop somewhere. Froggatt could have been twice as long, and we could have put half the team off guidebook work for good and heavily damaged sales, if we included every bouldering variant and recleaned and climbed every old overgrown access affected climb (even if many of these are also probably fun) and included every variation climb (eg next to the crack where the crack was verbotten). On uncovering new stuff some cleaning efforts were superhuman as it was (and so new routes almost had to be in) , especially Andy Lewanowski who deserves at least a pint from anyone enjoying new and old on Turning Stone, Matlock Bank,  Bradley and Ravens Nest amongst others. There are still loads of possible lines ...eg on the quarries between Black Rocks and Beeston Tor that are just plain futuristic. 

Back to the man, from working closely with him, his 'taste' for what 'new' stuff needed inclusion and how it should be treated is normally spot on and he's even prepared to take a step beyond when faced down by enthusiasm from the strange local fans (talk to him about Bradley Quarry ;-).