[douglas]

What did Rich think about the relative difficulty, as the only person to have climbed both?

[slackline]

What did Rich think about the relative difficulty, as the only person to have climbed both?

Don't even bother with that please (its been done to death, search the forums for the threads).

[tomtom]

Adams article was great - what routes beat him and why (theres also a 8b in his can't do list btw..).

I thought Ben was being a little mischevious with his tweet but he's got every right to be, as the first ascentionist of a route that has severely challenged the worlds best climbers and stopped several! 20 odd years later its still a test piece.

[Jaspersharpe]

So the first 8c+ becomes the first 9a and Ben skipped a grade? Seems bonkers but I think it's because Hubble is such an odd route (basically an 8B/+ boulder problem with a 7c on top of it) which couldn't be more different from the majority of routes in the 8c+/9a category nowadays.

Ben did always say that he thought Hubble and AD were a similar difficulty and Gullich did originally give AD 8c+/9a. With the way grades have gone since, it's completely understandable that they should both shift up slightly so both being 9a does fit.

Incidentally, I find it absolutely amazing that Hubble doesn't get done more regularly nowadays. With the number of strong fuckers bouldering (those mentioned in dobbin's post above for example) I would have thought it was a prime route to transfer that strength to. You even get a bit of a rest before the 7c bit. Put some bloody effort in for fuck's sake.

[slackline]

(theres also a 8b in his can't do list btw..).

Depends on what "lower grades" are but the closing paragraph...

There are of course many other routes, even in the lower grades, which I've failed to climb, but those I've talked about are the ones that, for one reason or other, have frustrated me most. And of course I've failed on many more boulder problems, since in bouldering it's easier to come across certain one-movers that don't suit my style, or perhaps the line doesn't inspire me enough to keep trying. But one day I might be back!

[Probes]

I had to shit in my trangia once  .  Totally 8c+.

[shark]

Apparently, Carlisle Slapper did some of the moves once, apparently. But this could be internet rumour and intrigue. Perhaps the whinnying and stamping of hooves that usually accompanies his appearance on the internet will confirm or deny (along with some random statements which noone understands).

The only whinnying and stamping of hooves being from Dobbin the Wondermule? Handbag, kettle, pot etc..

There's poetry in his posts

[SA Chris]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Hubble&word2=Action+Direct

Harsh!

[Muenchener]

More people haven't done Hubble than haven't done Action Direct.

On the other hand, there is almost certainly a brewery producing utterly stunning world class beer in the nearest village to Action Direct, because there is in almost every village in the Frankenjura. Is there a world class brewery in Tideswell? No. qed.

[slackline]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Hubble&word2=Action+Direct

Harsh!

Ah, but thats also returning hits which include 'Direct Action'.

Look at it another way Hubble v's "Action Direct" and you get a different answer

 

[GCW]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Hubble&word2=Action+Direct

Harsh!

Yes, but if you spell it correctly.......  http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Hubble&word2=Action+Directe

[moose]

Is there a world class brewery in Tideswell? No. qed.

Odd you should say that, the Thornbridge brewery is only 9 miles from Raven Tor and is respected as one of the UK's best and most innovative breweries.  I'd personally put Bracia, St Petersburg, and Jaipur IPA up against the best of Bavaria e.g. Schneider's Aventinus and Hopfenweisse, Weihenstefaner's Hefeweisse, Paulaner Salvator etc

[Jaspersharpe]

Beat me to it moose!

[dave]

Int there a brewery in edale too?

[saltbeef]

Hubble is such an odd route (basically an 8B/+ boulder problem with a 7c on top of it) which couldn't be more different from the majority of routes in the 8c+/9a category nowadays.

i ignore most of the ascents nowadays because 8c seems meaninglessly hard let alone 9b+ but I remember one of the routes adam did at 9b this year had an 8a route to an 8b bloc then a 9a on top. how does this differ so? except you don't climb a 9a after hubble and you have slogged up an 8a (or if you're ted kingsnorth on low right press got nicely warmed up) for the  physical crux?

I saw Dan on it, it didn't look easy and I saw some japanese guy on it and it wasn't a path therefore I corroborate Dobbin's grade of 9d. This is a clear consensus and I believe it should be recorded as such.

[slackline]

Not sure, but there is the Chatsworth brewery Peak Ales which is a bit closer to the Tor than Edale.

[rehab21]

Odd you should say that, the Thornbridge brewery is only 9 miles from Raven Tor and is respected as one of the UK's best and most innovative breweries.  I'd personally put Bracia, St Petersburg, and Jaipur IPA up against the best of Bavaria e.g. Schneider's Aventinus and Hopfenweisse, Weihenstefaner's Hefeweisse, Paulaner Salvator etc

Been a big fan of their Sequioa, too. For a start no-one can tell how pissed you are when ordering because no-one can pronounce it anyway. That and the flock wallpaper background they use for the pump labels.

[moose]

I know it's  but
Kipling's a lovely fruity everyday pint too.  I'm still to drink my bottle of Italia pilsner that's been sat in a cupboard for yonks (meant to be lovely - brewed with Birrificio Italiano - but it's not really lager weather).  The bottles of Bracia and the Coalition special are "laying down to mature" (i.e. being resisted until the inevitable happens and I neck them whilst pissed).  The beer of their's I really regret missing though is the Alliance barleywine.

[Jaspersharpe]

Hubble is such an odd route (basically an 8B/+ boulder problem with a 7c on top of it) which couldn't be more different from the majority of routes in the 8c+/9a category nowadays.

i ignore most of the ascents nowadays because 8c seems meaninglessly hard let alone 9b+ but I remember one of the routes adam did at 9b this year had an 8a route to an 8b bloc then a 9a on top. how does this differ

It differs because it's a 9b not an 8c+/9a. I was just pointing out that on the face of it it seems madness that the first 8c+ could actually have been 9a but when other factors are taken into consideration it is actually entirely possible. One of the factors being that the vast majority of 8c+ and 9a routes climbed since Hubble was done are of a totally different style and therefore the majority of climbers operating at that level are less used to that type of route.

except you don't climb a 9a after hubble and you have slogged up an 8a (or if you're ted kingsnorth on low right press got nicely warmed up) for the  physical crux?

  I'd forgotten that classic quote.

[Teaboy]

the first 8c+ could actually have been 9a

Unless Liqid Ambar gets upgraded as well......... 

My impression from reading the mags at the time and speaking to people at the time was that Ben and Jerry were shooting themselves in the foot in terms of claiming the big numbers, they chose to downgrade stuff abroad (Orgon Canal springs to mind but there were others IIRC) rather than grade UK stuff in line with them. Many old timers will remeber Fred Roulings cartoon on OTE from the time.

As Jasper said Action Direct was never graded 9a, that came about from a slightly wobbly translation of German (UIAA?) grades to French.

I know a few people who will be happy if this upgrade sticks as it'll open the doors to a few other routes that can get similarly re-evaluated.

[ducko]

as previously said, if anyone in the world has a right to give a grade to a route ondra has climbed more hard routes than ive had hot dinners so there's a chance he could be right..

 either that or my pet camel gave birth to an echidna last night there for your favourite pet goose lays a golden egg making it 8^+e..

[Muenchener]

Is there a world class brewery in Tideswell? No. qed.

Odd you should say that, the Thornbridge brewery is only 9 miles from Raven Tor and is respected as one of the UK's best and most innovative breweries.  I'd personally put Bracia, St Petersburg, and Jaipur IPA up against the best of Bavaria e.g. Schneider's Aventinus and Hopfenweisse, Weihenstefaner's Hefeweisse, Paulaner Salvator etc

That's interesting. Perhaps new since I left blighty ('99)? Otherwise I'd have to be ashamed of not knowing about it.

All the beers you mention are southern Bavarian, and while they are good, imo the general standard is even higher oop north in Franken, not least because there is a higher proportion of small obscure village breweries.

[slackline]

as previously said, if anyone in the world has a right to give a grade to a route ondra has climbed more hard routes than ive had hot dinners so there's a chance he could be right..

 either that or my pet camel gave birth to an echidna last night there for your favourite pet goose lays a golden egg making it 8^+e..

Unless your a raw foodist I reckon you've a pet camel that gave birth to an echidna.

[Xan]

pink anasazi

[Doylo]

The ramifications of these old skool routes being upgraded are pretty significant. Liquid Ambar's going in the next guide as 8c+ making it the first of the grade in the world and now Hubble's effectively being called the world's first 9a.  Moony always said it was as hard as Action back in the day and that they were both hard 8c+ (he got close to Action quickly but was thrawted by injury i believe).  There's not many other sports where 20 year old history can change like that!