[Oldmanmatt]

I don't mind the encouragement...

It's the "Garage mechanic/plumber" sucking of teeth/tutting that does my head in.

I try not to do it, I really do.

[a dense loner]

ghisino your 2 main posts above have been overly long and rambling, leaving me to question myself as a man. you seem to be a classic case of when someone suggests something you automatically make other allowances or alternatives to tweak the question til you get out of it what you want to hear. for instance i realised very quickly that i was indeed a man and don't need to talk about it anymore. maybe your gf should get a more confidant assertive bf 

[ghisino]

Tell them no beta or encouragement please.

Personally, I find encouragement helpful. Especially goading...

for me it depends.

there are some people who are great at it, they manage to sound as if they 100% believe you can send this try (even if it's desperate). If you're past the crux they usually sound as if you gave them a good show and they were happy about that.
If you had a good try and fall it doesn't matter, they enjoyed the show anyway.

there are a lot of people that i find neutral - they make background noise.

and there are still many others who, to some extent, express "negative" emotions in their encouragements.
Most of the times (as for the above mentioned friends) it's just fear, probably fear of not spotting/belaying right in case of a fall. Sometimes it's justified impatience after a long belay or too many tries on a boulder.
But in a few cases i've witnessed much worse. The ones who amazed me the most:
-this guy who couldn't resist suggesting his climber that he might as well trying something easier (while he was really close, falling one move from glory jug after a few tries). He encouraged, but you could always feel his disbelief.
-another one who yelled as he was giving ORDERS to his gf. He sounded like full metal jacket's sgt Hartman encouraging Private Pile...

[SA Chris]

What dense said, sounds like you have two seperate issues. Anyone giving unwanted beta, I usually give a loud "SHUSH".

[ghisino]

dense, you make an interesting point but you make me wonder if you understood their level of "seriousness" and their intent...

[magpie]

It sounds to me like you should just not climb with your gf very often.

I'm not really climbing at the moment and it's mainly down to a complete lack of psyche for it brought on by being totally unable to find partners who feel the same way as I do about climbing.  Climbing with people who have very different approaches to it than you do tends to suck all the fun out of and ruin the whole experience (and this works both ways, believe me, I'm sure your gf and the rest of the group didn't find you great company on the day either), so basically, I agree with the others that you should just find different people to climb with or go alone, since the social aspect doesn't seem to bother you anywhere near as much as the climbing aspect does.

[Big Dave]

This is why I usually go bouldering by myself...

[Falling Down]

Let me give you some unwanted beta.

These things "" are used to describe people talking or to quote anothers writing. 

[Stubbs]

Oh come on FD, i don't think you're really "getting it"



As for the original post

[ghisino]

These things "" are used to describe people talking or to quote anothers writing.

*these* are better?

(nb in other languages i write, "these" have a third function of indicating that some words are used improperly, either for lack of vocabulary or other reasons.
eg if in those languages read of someone falling on their "crashpad", i'll understand that it wasn't really a a proper foam mat.
So can you give me beta on how to express that idea in written english?)

[SA Chris]

Same way.

here's the full rundown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark

see 2.1 & 2.3

[Falling Down]

   you're right of course, but Christ it gets tiresome when overcooked.

Ghisino, I wouldn't dump your girlfriend 'cos she gives you grief about being a bit weird.  You'll regret it when you're injured.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ghisino, I wouldn't dump your girlfriend 'cos she gives you grief about being a bit weird.  You'll regret it when you're injured.

What he said...

[ghisino]

Climbing with people who have very different approaches to it than you do tends to suck all the fun out of and ruin the whole experience (and this works both ways, believe me, I'm sure your gf and the rest of the group didn't find you great company on the day either)

well this was more or less what motivated my initial post.

i find the issue of the many possible approaches and of their compatibility to be a very interesting one, as well as related sub-topics:
-what factors shape a person's approach to his/hers leisure activity?
-how do these approaches change with time? Are there common patterns or is it highly individual?
-can external subjects purposely influence one's approach, and to what degree (media, shops, commercial facilities, associations, instructors, peers)
-Is 8a.nu a massive global conspiracy?


on a more anedoctal note, i find it funny that on one side it is trivial that everyone should have a slightly different approach, but in practice we often tend to conform to a specific "climbing subculture" and sort of expect that everything else is a rare exception.
To make another example, consider an unknown getting to a crag and asking for a belay.
There are crags and seasons and social circles where this behaviour will be considered to be perfectly normal, to the point that people may even anticipate the question; others where most presents would find it bizarre to say the least.

 

[Oldmanmatt]

Most days, I worry; I might be a sub-culture of one....

[iwasmexican]

no friends on a powder day

exactly what i was going to say, there are no friends on good days...only ones that can keep up

[Oldmanmatt]

Yep, sounds like Dubai...
My problem is having time off, mid week, mornings. Arriving at wall/crag first and then being alone all morning (except perhaps for school/beginer groups + instructors). Real climbers all seem to appear around midday, just as I'm heading off...
Great in many ways, but I've come to realise; a bit of beta and a spotter can boost your performance. Not beta whilst climbing, the resting/discussing what went wrong type...
Although, lately, I've been climbing so badly; I'd be talking more than climbing...

[Moo]

none of the issues or questions in this thread need answering other than in your head by yourself

[chris j]

none of the issues or questions in this thread need answering other than in your head by yourself

If that was enough to stop people posting then every forum on the internet would close down from lack of use...

[Oldmanmatt]

none of the issues or questions in this thread need answering other than in your head by yourself

Very true.
 It's fair to say, though, giving vent helps to put things in perspective.
Being told to Man the f@&k up, is also useful, from time to time...

[battery]

I can sympathise with both sides of the origional point and I've been in that situation myself, some things to consider are:

 - Dumping the girlfriend is drastic, at least she climbs and understands when you want to go out, just look at all the theads around about partners being miffed when folk want to go out climbing 'cos they just don't get why you would want to go and stand around in the cold looking for the easiest way to get up the shortest, steepest bit of rock you can find.

 - Be grateful that your girlfriend wants to spend time with you, take it as a compliment, you have a shared interest and hobby and she perhaps wants your input and help as well as for you to be proud of her as she climbs.

 - Remember that good conditions not only apply to you but to her too.

- I know it's a dirty word but compromise! Take off some of the time but check in every now and again - if you are working problems or even circuiting then you need rests... so spend five minutes checking out how she is getting on.

 - Some of your psyche may rub off on her if you spend time with her, if you disappear it's just going to annoy her.

 - Be clear from the outset as to why you are going out that day, are you going out for a social day, to spend time with your girlfriend or to climb long and hard?

 - If all that fails, don't dump the girlfriend, just agree not to climb together. Katy Brown states that you should NEVER climb with a partner, not something that I subscribe to but obviously something that she feels strongly enough about to put in print.

[ducko]

Tell her to do one delete her mates of Facebook and have a wank

[pablokiev]

Yeah this is roughly how i feel about climbing in camel-land some days. The scene seems over-run with climbing wall newbies who assert their credibility by posting out-of-date videos on the local facebook climbing page and endlessly organise giant access-emperilling social visits to crags or boulders yet apparently never actually climb.

Now now Toby, I've a feeling you love the groupies really!

[metal arms]

Tell her to do one, have a wank over her mates on Facebook and then delete 'em

Don't delete them before you've got some use out of them.

[Nibile]

I've been thinking about this issue for a long time now.
the very day after the first post, I went bouldering with a guy who I started climbing with just lately.
well, he's a nice guy and everything, but it simply doesn't click.
for example, I don't like to talk about climbing when actually going climbing, because I am going to do it, so I don't need to talk about it. and after doing it is the same. so there's a problem for me there, because he talks about it all the time.
then, he refers to the problems by the grade instead of the number, and that really annoys me, plus it gets complicated "I've done the other 7b" "which one?" "the one I had tried before" and so on...
and most of all, but this may just be my impression, he climbs a lot because, being unemployed at the moment, he's got nothing else to do. and that's completely OK for me, but I feel that his work situation detracts a lot from his experience and maybe hinders a bit some true and profund happiness.
it's strange, I just seem to feel out of place when I'm with him. in fact, I haven't had any real great day with him, no hits, just climbing around or trying hard but to no avail.
for sure it's my fault, because he ticks, but that's how I feel. so now I know what to expect, and if I don't feel 100% in it, I just take it as a "training day out".
to climb greatly with others, I need to share more than just a bit of rock with them. I need a deeper relationship, and that doesn't mean knowing one another for longer, but simply sharing something on a human level more than a climbing level.

re. the girlfriend issue, well, my opinion is highly influenced by my situation of lonesome hunter of the last years. I'd love to have my girlfriend to come with me on small roadtrips like before, and maybe I'd love to have a climbing girlfriend.
I don't know, sometimes it all seems so clear to me: if you know me profoundly you can't ask me to moderate my climbing passion/obsession, because it's like asking me to change my nature.
it's even too clear, in fact, but I'm digressing now.