[ghisino]

Do you ever feel that you have trouble relating to climbers who are much less (or much more) "psyched"/obsessed/"into it" than you?
I mean, maybe you even appreciate them as persons, they can be friends of yours, they also climb but...there's no way you can have a really good climbing day with them?



Last sunday i was out bouldering with gf and a bunch of friends.
It is safe to say that i was the most "psyched" of the group : they all love climbing, they go to climbing gyms during the week, but i wouldn't qualify them as "obsessed".
I.e. for all of them 5°C and a clear sky means "a cold day". Probably too cold to go climbing.
When i leave home in the morning, see a clear sky and feel we're going to have 5°C max, i think "prime conditions, hehe", even if i'm not climbing that day.

So what happened on sunday is that i was enthusiastically bouncing from one boulder to the next at a fast pace, repeating most of my favourite easy and moderates in the area and trying a couple of harder ones, while the rest of the group was much more relaxed i'd say...i ended up sharing maybe 10% of the day with them.

This led to gf complaining that i basically didn't give a fuck about the group, that i was "putting a distance between me and them" and she would have liked to see me being "more social" (ie hanging with them, encouraging, etc)

Now, i feel quite challenged by this (truthful) complaints: on one side i appreciate these people as persons, on the other i don't fail to interact with other climbers (of any level) too often and i wouldn't say i'm one of those solitude-seeking boulderers.

I was asking myself if the different approach we have might explain my attitude.
Ie, i sort of feel that if i was seeing them trying really hard without getting discouraged, or cruising a zillion of easy problems, or inventing the silliest games and eliminates, or even just stopping to look at that graceful climber over there, i would more easily relate to them as "passionate climbers" and/or they would attract my attention.
I would stop more often to encourage them, try things with them, brush their holds, maybe just to sit in a corner and peacefully look at them.

While in reality i feel as if they did not "care" enough, as if they didn't really have fun at climbing in itself...
i mean, even if they can have a good day at the boulders together, they wouldn't really be able to have fun (let alone have an idea of what they'd like to climb) if they were forced to have strictly solitary sessions, one climber one pad and nobody else around...

(and i don't think that it has something to do with ability of experience: think about how some kids need to get on top of things, and you can't stop them, while others do it only after they've seen a pal, just to make the point that they can do it as well...)

So the likely conclusion is that, as climbers, they mostly bore me...sometimes they even irritate me.


any thoughts, any stories that relate to this tantrum?

[Johnny Brown]

Fuck 'em. There are plenty of times in life when socialising comes first. When you're climbing, the climbing comes first.

[Fiend]

What the misanthropic hermit grouch said 


I like having a good friendly social aspect to climbing, but I do like going bouldering on my own *.

* With 2 pads tho **.

**Admittedly they're both shit.

[a dense loner]

climbing is a selfish game its not social. maybe you should get a new gf? if this is not possible then at the very least she should get new friends

[tomtom]

It's simple, all you need is an imaginary friend... This has the added bonus of making everyone else at the crag give you a wide berth whilst you are talking to yourself.

[webbo]

It's simple, all you need is an imaginary friend... This has the added bonus of making everyone else at the crag give you a wide berth whilst you are talking to yourself.

If you do that when I'm out I'll show what being social is and get you sectioned.

[Oldmanmatt]

Or a diet of mainly baked beans...
When waiting to work a problem, that some other bugger is hogging; simply hang around venting freely...
People usually move away.
Quite quickly, sometimes...

[Doylo]

dense is right, new gf time

[Seb]

For me there are 2 or 3 people that I can climb hard with who are on the same level as me, pushing each other to try better and end up trying and often managing stuff that looks or feels stupid or impossible. With every one else or even when theres a big group I just write the day off as more socializing than climbing and try not to get annoyed. I know what you mean about the difference between climbers who would go out on there own and try something hard with no one else there and ones who wouldnt. To paraphrase get a new gf.

[Jim]

the lottery can't buy you 5 degrees and clear skies.
It'll definately buy you a new GF and mates tho.

[lagerstarfish]

What JB said - I was going to post the exact same thing

When it comes to good conditions and you're at the crag, you just need to communicate how much it means to you. There are only so many such days in a person's life - and in terms of hours, that's a tiny fraction of the amount of time you spend being a decent social being. If your partner doesn't understand then you either need to improve your communication skills or "have some time apart" until The Lime is called.

When you have kids, this psyche will infect them and is the stuff that your baby-momma will love and brag about to her dull friends.

[BB]

This thread is gold.

"Dear Deidre, the grit's been callled and my job and wife are getting in the way. What can I do?"

[Nibile]

what would jerry do? :-)

[tomtom]

what would jerry do? :-)

Talk to his imaginary friend Ben of course!

[Oldmanmatt]

Next time she goes shopping with her mates...
Go along.
Contually moan that she's not doing it the way you would. If she's looking for shoes, insist on spending hours looking at Duvets...
Moan that it's time for a coffee, every five minutes ( you'll have the shakes by cup 5, but it's worth it).
Be careful to say how great her mates look, but always do "the face" and shake your head at everything she chooses...
This works.
One way or another...

[moose]

The sacrifice of cranking for chatting and social interaction is perhaps a separate and bigger issue - one that's specific to your group.  But, don't mistake a lack of enthusiasm for "conditions" for a lack of love of climbing.  Some people just can't cope with cold weather (numb fingers, can't get or stay warm... just basic misery).  I know because I'm one of them - all this "grit season" talk just makes me sad because I know that it portends a solid 4-5 months of only being able to climb indoors. 

[galpinos]

This sounds very similar to conversations/arguments I’ve had with people when doing seasons and it’s been a powder day. I’ve told people I didn’t want to ski with them on a powder day for many reasons, and it did strain friendships at times. I even once refused to answer any calls or texts from my then girlfriend as I didn’t want to ruin what was looking like an awesome powder day by skiing with her. My explanation that evening,

“Well, you’re a bit shit, quite slow, and you’d turn up with your twattish crystal chums and I’d feel obliged to ski with you. This would mean I’d barely get a run in whilst Seb and Raph would get a whole day skiing all the best lines in the back bowl. That’d be a rubbish day”

(Not a patch on when a mate was asked just what his priorities were and his response was, “Skiing, my mates, you……in that order”)

Days when conditions are great are a rarity. The reason we put all this effort into getting better at something, going out when conditions aren’t great, ‘training’ on plastic in a sweaty room with semi-naked men, is so we can profit when it all comes together.

The feeling I got when I woke up to a blanket of fresh powder is the same as I get now when I wake up to crisp, cold clear day. The anticipation can be overwhelming.

[ghisino]

don't mistake a lack of enthusiasm for "conditions" for a lack of love of climbing.

i'm not!

i'm saying that we happen to love climbing in different ways and/or to different degrees.

It could be the result of our different backgroud 

i started in a small town having a really small and shitty bouldering wall run by assholes, chossy local crags especially in the easier grades, but very good to world-class things if one wanted to train a little bit and drive just a little further. It's a context where if you don't invest at least a certain amount of your resources into the sport, you only get the really shitty bit in exchange.

They have several private and association-run climbing gyms that are nice and big enough to be seen as an alternative form of fitness.
They have a world-class bouldering venue next door, but it's not just a climbing venue. It's also the most obvious spot for any "open air" activity you'd like to do, it's where families have a walk with their children and dog every sunday.
It is totally possible for them to approach climbing as just any other mainstream outdoor sport and still enjoy it.




anyway i've called Ben during my dreams tonight. He gave me the phone numbers of his friends Marc and Antoine, saying they were very psyched back in the day.








ps
the "good conditions" bit was just an example to separate more and less dedicated climbers, as the "can/can't have fun on a solo day" one...last sunday it was actually a pretty good day but don't get overfocused on it!

(Other possible example: the dedicated climber is capable of going to catalunya for two weeks without spending a single day in Barcelona)

[SA Chris]

This sounds very similar to conversations/arguments I’ve had with people when doing seasons and it’s been a powder day. I’ve told people I didn’t want to ski with them on a powder day for many reasons, and it did strain friendships at times. I even once refused to answer any calls or texts from my then girlfriend as I didn’t want to ruin what was looking like an awesome powder day by skiing with her.

Rule no 1 of skiing - no friends on a powder day!! And groups of no more than 3. Any more than that and it's time to start subdividing.

Like any sport we do outdoors, primo conditions are rare. If your mates aren't as psyched as you to make the effort, then it's better to have a good day on your own than have bad day feeling like you are being held up. Some days you just need to say "fuck it" and get on with it, and worry about the fallout from your actions later. Other days you can just chill out and shoot the shit, have a laugh etc.

Surfing weekend before last I got in with a couple of mates who are still beginners. I usually give up some of my session to give them some tips, encouragement etc, but it was just too good, and they were struggling with the conditions, so I had a momentary crisis of conscience, but spoke to them and they were happy to just catch the small ones and left me to have a good session. They said they would have done the same thing in my shoes. 

[Pebblespanker]

dense is right, new gf time

  harsh as it sounds I agree with Doylo and Dense.

Don't get why she is moaning at you for doing what you enjoy  good days are rare and if they want to knob about as a group then fine thats cool but they and the gf should also respect your desire to do what you love doing ona rare good day - the gf seems to be more concerned that you are not being social with the mates, than the fact you will have a crap day with a bunch of wasters - in my experience realtionships where one partner is uber-keen for their sport tend not to last (says the divorced man). I know exactly what you mean about climbing with people who are not psyched its feckin hard work and usually leaves me wishing we'd just agreed to do a bimble session somewhere - much better to be out with some folks who are frothing about hitting the crag for a bit of grit action 

If they think 5C is too cold for climbing then it may be time to get some new climbing mates or use them as Team Summer and find some proper chaps to enjoy the best conditions with 

[ghisino]

Anyway.

let's add a rant on top of another.  just for the sake of it.

I've said that these climbers very rarely catch my interest, most of the time bore me, sometimes irritate me.

There are two things that mostly irritate me, and on the next bad conditions day i'd like to try to change their ways a little bit on these points, so i'm open for suggestions.

one is beta shouting. Not beta shouting per se...their brand of beta shouting.
It doesn't happen on every boulder.
But once one of them breaks the ice ("left hand higher up! left hand higher up") the others feel compelled to give their suggestions too.
But that's just the start, because the real mess is that everyone wants to be the one (and only) who has suggested the right beta. So beta shouting becomes a game of ssuggesting what seems to be the most likely yet still untold solution before your neighbour gets to it.
This results in a first wave of at least four contradictory propositions (one for each limb, at least), getting to the climber's ears in fractions of a second.
Now the confused climber randomly chooses one of the propositions and tries it, then reverses the move, then tries all the other ones (how can you decide which one works if you haven't tried them all?).
After this, the climber is still at the starting point. She's probably making her mind on which beta she liked best, but the spotters only see that she's not gaining vertical centimeters.
So one of them feels insecure about his proposition and decides to change it for a more esoteric one. And that's the start of the second wave.
It gets on and on this way until either the climber is too pumped, or the propositions get so unlikely that they result in a fall.


the other one is encouraging. Again, it is not systematic: sometimes they don't encourage.
But whan they do, they do it together and with a similar competition (everyone wants to be the last to have shouted "Allez! Allez!"). The overal effect is reminiscent of a pack of barking dogs.
And it's still ok.
Because the worse bit is when you listen at them individually. Everyone's intonation communicates this sense of imminent catastrophe. As if they were seeing their best friend making a suicidal attempt on a deadly, exposed, hard and insecure highball/solo, way above his possibilities. At first they hope thet he will change his mind and reverse to the ground, then he goes for a dyno that can't be reversed and they hope for a fall (still close to the ground, hopefully it won't result in an injury), then he sticks the dyno, gets into the really exposed crux (compared to which the dyno was piss) and they don't know what to think, so they desperately pray the "Allez" god to help their friend.
All of this, while the climber's feet are still one meter above a sea of sand and two crashpads...



...shoud i cut their tongues? 

[stvey1987]

You had better hope your gf and mates dont discover this forum, your username and this thead then you would be in a whole world of pain 

[ghisino]

 

i woundn't have ranted freely (and exxagerating things a bit maybe) if there was a serious chance of that happening. 

[tomtom]

Tell them no beta or encouragement please.

Personally, I find encouragement helpful. Especially goading...

I was climbing at Rubicon with Stone earlier in the year, and after I said a couple of come on's when he was really close to something he plopped off and said quite forthrightly "I really really dislike people giving encouragement, please could you stop it?". Fair enough I thought, and I did. No offence taken and hopefully none given. Though ten min later someone else came along, offered similar encouragement and was given the same response a little more disparigingly!

I'm a bit like that with Beta - I love comments after I come down, 'try putting your foot there next time etc..' because I like to analyse what I've done and figure out how to do it. But, I'm less keen on mid problem beta - thuogh I will ask for it on occasion if I'm stuck.. If someone starts spouting off how to do something mid problem it usually provokes a sarcastic reply.. Especially if its something I've done before - know how to do it, but just cant get up it because I'm weak...

You could re-name this thread - or spawn a new one along the lines of 'is it good to have a climbing girlfriend?' (or partner to be PC). I'm kinda half and half on this one - it can be great - but MrsTT does not climb at all, but will happily sit (in warm weather) and read a book, sn**gering at the internal conflicts I'm having whilst failing at something. Or happily sit on the sofa (in cold weather) whilst I disappear out for a few hours... Sometimes I worry this means we dont have so much in common - but on the flip side having different interests in some things can be quite healthy..

[Will Hunt]

I think this encouragement and beta giving discussion is quite valuable. Is there a consensus that could be reached? Can "Allez" only be squawked on a warm day? I admit I am guilty of encouragement giving even though I know others aren't so keen. It's like when you're watching a football game or something and you find yourself egging on your team. Quite unintentional really. I'll try and rein it in.

[Oldmanmatt]

I don't mind the encouragement...

It's the "Garage mechanic/plumber" sucking of teeth/tutting that does my head in.

I try not to do it, I really do.

[a dense loner]

ghisino your 2 main posts above have been overly long and rambling, leaving me to question myself as a man. you seem to be a classic case of when someone suggests something you automatically make other allowances or alternatives to tweak the question til you get out of it what you want to hear. for instance i realised very quickly that i was indeed a man and don't need to talk about it anymore. maybe your gf should get a more confidant assertive bf 

[ghisino]

Tell them no beta or encouragement please.

Personally, I find encouragement helpful. Especially goading...

for me it depends.

there are some people who are great at it, they manage to sound as if they 100% believe you can send this try (even if it's desperate). If you're past the crux they usually sound as if you gave them a good show and they were happy about that.
If you had a good try and fall it doesn't matter, they enjoyed the show anyway.

there are a lot of people that i find neutral - they make background noise.

and there are still many others who, to some extent, express "negative" emotions in their encouragements.
Most of the times (as for the above mentioned friends) it's just fear, probably fear of not spotting/belaying right in case of a fall. Sometimes it's justified impatience after a long belay or too many tries on a boulder.
But in a few cases i've witnessed much worse. The ones who amazed me the most:
-this guy who couldn't resist suggesting his climber that he might as well trying something easier (while he was really close, falling one move from glory jug after a few tries). He encouraged, but you could always feel his disbelief.
-another one who yelled as he was giving ORDERS to his gf. He sounded like full metal jacket's sgt Hartman encouraging Private Pile...

[SA Chris]

What dense said, sounds like you have two seperate issues. Anyone giving unwanted beta, I usually give a loud "SHUSH".

[ghisino]

dense, you make an interesting point but you make me wonder if you understood their level of "seriousness" and their intent...

[magpie]

It sounds to me like you should just not climb with your gf very often.

I'm not really climbing at the moment and it's mainly down to a complete lack of psyche for it brought on by being totally unable to find partners who feel the same way as I do about climbing.  Climbing with people who have very different approaches to it than you do tends to suck all the fun out of and ruin the whole experience (and this works both ways, believe me, I'm sure your gf and the rest of the group didn't find you great company on the day either), so basically, I agree with the others that you should just find different people to climb with or go alone, since the social aspect doesn't seem to bother you anywhere near as much as the climbing aspect does.

[Big Dave]

This is why I usually go bouldering by myself...

[Falling Down]

Let me give you some unwanted beta.

These things "" are used to describe people talking or to quote anothers writing. 

[Stubbs]

Oh come on FD, i don't think you're really "getting it"



As for the original post

[ghisino]

These things "" are used to describe people talking or to quote anothers writing.

*these* are better?

(nb in other languages i write, "these" have a third function of indicating that some words are used improperly, either for lack of vocabulary or other reasons.
eg if in those languages read of someone falling on their "crashpad", i'll understand that it wasn't really a a proper foam mat.
So can you give me beta on how to express that idea in written english?)

[SA Chris]

Same way.

here's the full rundown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark

see 2.1 & 2.3

[Falling Down]

   you're right of course, but Christ it gets tiresome when overcooked.

Ghisino, I wouldn't dump your girlfriend 'cos she gives you grief about being a bit weird.  You'll regret it when you're injured.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ghisino, I wouldn't dump your girlfriend 'cos she gives you grief about being a bit weird.  You'll regret it when you're injured.

What he said...

[ghisino]

Climbing with people who have very different approaches to it than you do tends to suck all the fun out of and ruin the whole experience (and this works both ways, believe me, I'm sure your gf and the rest of the group didn't find you great company on the day either)

well this was more or less what motivated my initial post.

i find the issue of the many possible approaches and of their compatibility to be a very interesting one, as well as related sub-topics:
-what factors shape a person's approach to his/hers leisure activity?
-how do these approaches change with time? Are there common patterns or is it highly individual?
-can external subjects purposely influence one's approach, and to what degree (media, shops, commercial facilities, associations, instructors, peers)
-Is 8a.nu a massive global conspiracy?


on a more anedoctal note, i find it funny that on one side it is trivial that everyone should have a slightly different approach, but in practice we often tend to conform to a specific "climbing subculture" and sort of expect that everything else is a rare exception.
To make another example, consider an unknown getting to a crag and asking for a belay.
There are crags and seasons and social circles where this behaviour will be considered to be perfectly normal, to the point that people may even anticipate the question; others where most presents would find it bizarre to say the least.

 

[Oldmanmatt]

Most days, I worry; I might be a sub-culture of one....

[iwasmexican]

no friends on a powder day

exactly what i was going to say, there are no friends on good days...only ones that can keep up

[Oldmanmatt]

Yep, sounds like Dubai...
My problem is having time off, mid week, mornings. Arriving at wall/crag first and then being alone all morning (except perhaps for school/beginer groups + instructors). Real climbers all seem to appear around midday, just as I'm heading off...
Great in many ways, but I've come to realise; a bit of beta and a spotter can boost your performance. Not beta whilst climbing, the resting/discussing what went wrong type...
Although, lately, I've been climbing so badly; I'd be talking more than climbing...

[Moo]

none of the issues or questions in this thread need answering other than in your head by yourself

[chris j]

none of the issues or questions in this thread need answering other than in your head by yourself

If that was enough to stop people posting then every forum on the internet would close down from lack of use...

[Oldmanmatt]

none of the issues or questions in this thread need answering other than in your head by yourself

Very true.
 It's fair to say, though, giving vent helps to put things in perspective.
Being told to Man the f@&k up, is also useful, from time to time...

[battery]

I can sympathise with both sides of the origional point and I've been in that situation myself, some things to consider are:

 - Dumping the girlfriend is drastic, at least she climbs and understands when you want to go out, just look at all the theads around about partners being miffed when folk want to go out climbing 'cos they just don't get why you would want to go and stand around in the cold looking for the easiest way to get up the shortest, steepest bit of rock you can find.

 - Be grateful that your girlfriend wants to spend time with you, take it as a compliment, you have a shared interest and hobby and she perhaps wants your input and help as well as for you to be proud of her as she climbs.

 - Remember that good conditions not only apply to you but to her too.

- I know it's a dirty word but compromise! Take off some of the time but check in every now and again - if you are working problems or even circuiting then you need rests... so spend five minutes checking out how she is getting on.

 - Some of your psyche may rub off on her if you spend time with her, if you disappear it's just going to annoy her.

 - Be clear from the outset as to why you are going out that day, are you going out for a social day, to spend time with your girlfriend or to climb long and hard?

 - If all that fails, don't dump the girlfriend, just agree not to climb together. Katy Brown states that you should NEVER climb with a partner, not something that I subscribe to but obviously something that she feels strongly enough about to put in print.

[ducko]

Tell her to do one delete her mates of Facebook and have a wank

[pablokiev]

Yeah this is roughly how i feel about climbing in camel-land some days. The scene seems over-run with climbing wall newbies who assert their credibility by posting out-of-date videos on the local facebook climbing page and endlessly organise giant access-emperilling social visits to crags or boulders yet apparently never actually climb.

Now now Toby, I've a feeling you love the groupies really!

[metal arms]

Tell her to do one, have a wank over her mates on Facebook and then delete 'em

Don't delete them before you've got some use out of them.

[Nibile]

I've been thinking about this issue for a long time now.
the very day after the first post, I went bouldering with a guy who I started climbing with just lately.
well, he's a nice guy and everything, but it simply doesn't click.
for example, I don't like to talk about climbing when actually going climbing, because I am going to do it, so I don't need to talk about it. and after doing it is the same. so there's a problem for me there, because he talks about it all the time.
then, he refers to the problems by the grade instead of the number, and that really annoys me, plus it gets complicated "I've done the other 7b" "which one?" "the one I had tried before" and so on...
and most of all, but this may just be my impression, he climbs a lot because, being unemployed at the moment, he's got nothing else to do. and that's completely OK for me, but I feel that his work situation detracts a lot from his experience and maybe hinders a bit some true and profund happiness.
it's strange, I just seem to feel out of place when I'm with him. in fact, I haven't had any real great day with him, no hits, just climbing around or trying hard but to no avail.
for sure it's my fault, because he ticks, but that's how I feel. so now I know what to expect, and if I don't feel 100% in it, I just take it as a "training day out".
to climb greatly with others, I need to share more than just a bit of rock with them. I need a deeper relationship, and that doesn't mean knowing one another for longer, but simply sharing something on a human level more than a climbing level.

re. the girlfriend issue, well, my opinion is highly influenced by my situation of lonesome hunter of the last years. I'd love to have my girlfriend to come with me on small roadtrips like before, and maybe I'd love to have a climbing girlfriend.
I don't know, sometimes it all seems so clear to me: if you know me profoundly you can't ask me to moderate my climbing passion/obsession, because it's like asking me to change my nature.
it's even too clear, in fact, but I'm digressing now.

[ghisino]

he refers to the problems by the grade instead of the number, and that really annoys me, plus it gets complicated "I've done the other 7b" "which one?" "the one I had tried before" and so on...

 

reminds me of this guy i've been climbing a lot with this year since we had a common objective.

last 2 days of our trip, objectives ticked, we went to céuse for 2 days.

I put the guy on the best routes for his style (ananda and bibendum) and then, at the end of the second day, as i felt in top shape we went to the left side of berlin.
It's a sector i have a deep reverence for because  the routes are hard-ish for their grades, awesome, near the top of my abilities and relatively scarce (15 or 20?)... So  don't want to ruin my appreciation by trying them when i'm not ready, i don't want to get to the point where i hate the route after x unsuccessful tries, i want to climb them beautifully and savour each move.

ended up having my first go ever on "berlin" itself, being a bit hesitant, not quite sure it was a good choice, too hard for an onsight and possibly too hard for a 2nd go, "maybe it was better to go back to galaxy or queue de rat...but fuck it this route looks so good"
And i've heard so many positive comments on the route, talking of magnificent knob-like features higher up, that it only added some pressure.
I ended up working it quickly and having an almost flawless redpoint 40 minutes later, just before it got dark. Just perfect, i couldn't ask a better finish for such a mini-visit.

So, i was psyched about having climbed berlin in-an-hour.  But each time he talks about that trip to céuse, the other guy refers to the route with a grade, and even the wrong one! yes, the man here showed me céuse and on the last day he did this 7c+ second go, amazing effort!
Fuck it, it's a mere 7c, it's a warmup route for some people... but it's Berlin. I tried to explain to him but he really doesn't get the point...

[Nibile]

i meant to say 'the grade instead of the name' and not 'number'. Freudian lapsus innit?

[ghisino]

i meant to say 'the grade instead of the name' and not 'number'. Freudian lapsus innit?

yet sometimes boulders have a number istead of a name...
http://bleau.info/sabots/circuit96.html

[philo]

Same thing with surfing, you have to write the day off to everyone you know/will text/ring / communicate though they know where your most likely to be so could come try communicate that way.
When I climb I often do it alone or with a group thats usually hardcore and above my level.  We have a right laugh though and mix the two up.  When you spend a long time with the same people on the road the line between cranking and socialising is stretched as people want ticks etc. 
Or in other words, tell her to FO - in fact, I would never have a GF who climbs or surfs because one of the best things about it is that, its your time away from them for hours.. days...

[Fiend]

Forgot to mention before that there is a difference between actually liking CLIMBING, and not actually liking climbing but liking being out climbing, hanging out with climbers, being part of the climbing atmosphere, having just done climbing etc etc.