[gremlin]

Hi,

As I get older I find it increasingly diffficult to recover after a good traing session, whether it be fingerboard, bouldering or route climbing.
Has anyone got any advice on how to speed the recovery process up? I'm thinking in terms of diet, supplements, compression tops, that sort of thing.
I get plenty of sleep and stretch often so that's a good start I guess. 

[JohnM]

Beetroot juice.

[SA Chris]

Yoga.

[andy_e]

Ibuprofen and red wine. And a protein shake.

[slackline]

Go climbing/training with ghisino.

[Big Dave]

How often are your training sessions? It could be that you're not getting enough rest.

A good diet with plenty of protein is also important.

[gremlin]

I climb 2-3 times a week and also squeeze in an half hour fingerboard session once or twice per week.

I hear what people are saying about protein but I have a well balanced diet and don't want to put any weight on!

BTW: Beetroot Juice ? 

[shark]

Some of the Eurowads wear TENS machines strapped to their forearms after sessions. A more British alternative is showering your forearms with cold water when you get home.

[Big Dave]

I climb 2-3 times a week and also squeeze in an half hour fingerboard session once or twice per week.

I hear what people are saying about protein but I have a well balanced diet and don't want to put any weight on!

BTW: Beetroot Juice ? 

3-4 sessions a week sounds ok, not over doing it (unless they're several hours long!)

Not tried it myself but Beetroot juice is rich in nitrates, which are meant to have health benefits and improve sports performance.

[kingholmesy]

A more British alternative is showering your forearms with cold water when you get home.

This is the equivalent of the boxer's ice bath. For maximum effectiveness you should submerge your forearms (& the rest of you?!) in cold water ASAP after finishing training. Obviously this is easier at the wall than at the crag, although I have witnessed someone at Malham running down from the catwalk to the stream after doing laps on a route.

[shark]

I have witnessed someone at Malham running down from the catwalk to the stream after doing laps on a route.

 

[Omar15]

i honestly think protein shakes are the best thing in the world. my stomach doesn't really like the whey ones so i go for the soya stuff - i think its £10 from holland and barrett.

I know nothing about the putting on weight thing but im fairly sure you'd only put on weight if you were doing a different type of exercise - eg lifting weights.

I find if i down a protein shake after a good session, have a proper meal when i get home then the next day i feel a lot better than if i skipped the shake.

[highrepute]

I have witnessed someone at Malham running down from the catwalk to the stream after doing laps on a route.

 

Saw Paul Reeves doing this and thought I'd try it out. Woke up the next morning with conjunctivitis in both eyes! ouch! not done it since

[ghisino]

Go climbing/training with ghisino.

or buy some radioactive holds 

[shark]

I have witnessed someone at Malham running down from the catwalk to the stream after doing laps on a route.

 

Saw Paul Reeves doing this and thought I'd try it out. Woke up the next morning with conjunctivitis in both eyes! ouch! not done it since

Respect.  Not even Paul immerses his head.

[Pebblespanker]

Not sure how much value the following is but I'm in my late 40's and I use protein shakes (PhD Phara whey) after heavy PE training sessions but instead of the reccomended 1 scoop per 250ml fluid I use 1 scoop in 450ml of skimmed milk - definitely seems to help me feel human the next morning and I'm not putting on weight - good job really as I'm lardy enough as it is!

Ibuprofen occaisionally as a precaution after maximal finger strength sessions on the board if I feel any stiffness as I have a slightly dicky left ring finger 2nd joint and it works a treat, that and 24hrs before any more maximal finger work - old joints seem to take a little longer to recover in my case

[Big Dave]

I wouldn't worry about having a bit of extra protein, weight gain is unlikely unless you're consuming excess calories.

I wouldn't use NSAIDs (ibuprofen) to assist in recovery either.

[shark]

As I get older I find it increasingly diffficult to recover after a good traing session, whether it be fingerboard, bouldering or route climbing.

Recovery is trainable.

This requires doing sessions where you are only partially recovered and is hard going and you will feel sore until your body adapts to it but keep the faith. Build up the number of sessions at a pace you are comfortable with typically "stopping strong" on power/strength sessions and alternating and varying session types. 3 weeks of packing the sessions in then a lighter week and repeat seems to be a pattern that works for many. I have been able to up the number of sessions in any one week and would be surprised if you were older than me.

[TobyD]

Recovery is trainable.
This requires doing sessions where you are only partially recovered and is hard going and you will feel sore until your body adapts to it but keep the faith.

That's knowledge. Know when to accept pain (the right sort) and get on with it, and when to rest.  ARC sessions in between higher intensity workouts help me when i have access to the rock / facilities. 
I too have dabbled with the Malham back 'ice bath', and found it pretty effective actually. I have never stuck my head in as well though.
Perhaps this stuff is the future:
http://www.bathandunwind.com/brands/badger-balm/?gclid=CMnMzsr956sCFYJO4QodN2xMJw#mu=%2Fbrands%2Fbadger-balm%2Fbadger-balm%2FBadger-Balm-Sore-Muscle-Rub.htm%3Fajax%3Dtrue%26cb%3D11896990
 

[gremlin]

So it's looking like a protein suplement is the way to go as well as allowing my body time to adapt to a given work load (shark).
Also, the Badger Balm sounds like a must have, if only for the great name!

I already soak my forearms in icy water after a hard session so lets see how the protein works. anyone got any links for some good deals?

P.S. I took a look at the beetroot juice idea and it looks like nearly a pint must be consumed daily to see any benefits! 

[SA Chris]

Would that be enough for it to look like you are pissing blood ribena?

[abarro81]

myprotein is cheapest AFAIK. I go for a bit of glutamine with a pint of water each morning, and with a bit of milk each evening too. I heard having a good drink of water each morning when you wake up is good to help flush everything out after your recovery during sleep...

[Fultonius]

You might want to mix some carbs in to your post training shake. Even though the number of carbs burnt in a typical climbing session aren't very high, most of the advice says taking simple carbs on completion of training really kick starts the recovery phase. Obviously protein is required to rebuild muscles, but not *that* much. It's pretty small muscles you're taxing.

Obviously the the extra calories you consume post-workout should be compensated for somewhere else in the day.

Also, about streetching. Be careful not to be too intense as you may be inadvertently over stressing the muscles and not giving them the time to recover. Gentle is key.

[mikester]

You might want to mix some carbs in to your post training shake. Even though the number of carbs burnt in a typical climbing session aren't very high, most of the advice says taking simple carbs on completion of training really kick starts the recovery phase. Obviously protein is required to rebuild muscles, but not *that* much. It's pretty small muscles you're taxing.

Agree. Recovery nutrition should seek to restock glycogen muscle stores and repair muscle; (simple) carbs for the former, protein for the latter. Restoring muscle glycogen is really important if you're going to train hard again within a short space of time, say the next day. Bear in mind that protein uptake will be inhibited if you don't also take on board carbs, and carb/glycogen update will be inhibited if you don't take on board water. So, carb-protein shakes are awesome. Maybe throw in some glutamine and some (disgusting) BCAA for good measure. No need to overdo the protein, you really don't need bodybuilder quantities.

[shark]

Can't believe I forgot nutrient timing. 

Some carbs before, carbs during and  carbs with protein after. Ham and cream cheese sandwich washed down with skimmed milk is my current combo of choice. Mmmm

[boulderingbacon]

drinking plenty of water will have more benefit than any shakes but shakes are good and should be taken within 20 mins of finishing your session..  its the lactate  build up that causes fatigue and some people just produce less than others. i know after two or three days of climbing im going to be sore and need a rest day but got mates who can train 7 days a week with not much fatigue, there just lucky.

[mikester]

drinking plenty of water will have more benefit than any shakes but shakes are good and should be taken within 20 mins of finishing your session..  its the lactate  build up that causes fatigue and some people just produce less than others. i know after two or three days of climbing im going to be sore and need a rest day but got mates who can train 7 days a week with not much fatigue, there just lucky.

Disagree. Whilst being hydrated is always a good idea, water alone will not replace the nutrients that you need before, during or after training. Maybe this is why you can't train as much as your mates? And lactate stores are very transient - it's metabolised very quickly - so this is not the cause of fatigue after training. More likely, the feeling of fatigue after training is generally muscle damage (micro-trauma and glycogen depletion).

[Ged]

Surprised nobody has mentioned having a proper warm down and a good stretch.  This does absolute wanders I find.  15 minutes of really easy climbing, with lots of forearm and shoulder stretches, done whilst drinking a protein/carb shake, a gentle bike ride home, a good meal and a hot/cold alternating shower, and you'll be fresh as a daisy. 

Whilst I agree it's important to drink water after training, I'm not sure it's true that water will have more benefit than shakes...

[cha1n]

When I used to weight train I'd take creatine immediately after a session and make sure I had a meal within 20 minutes that had high GI carbs and lean protein (for fast absorption).

I was also taking protein supplements. As I test, I once did a few weeks without protein supplements and a few without creatine. I found that my recovery was noticably much better with creatine and noticed no difference without the protein. My suspicion is that I was getting enough protein from meals alone.

[mark s]

600mg of testosterone
400mg equipoise
 

[a dense loner]

take creatine, the first thing you see on the label is it aids recovery, the only thing better than this is roids. as for drinking water to recover, take this with the course of leeches that has also been prescribed

[slackline]

take this with the course of leeches that has also been prescribed

How many people need reconstructive surgery after a hard training session?

[webbo]

I have recently had surgery in an attempt to get better.However I'm still as crap as I ever was despite even going private.Never saw even a hint of a leech maybe thats why it han't worked.

[gremlin]

take creatine, the first thing you see on the label is it aids recovery, the only thing better than this is roids...

Is that for true? I thought creatine just made the body hold on to water and therefore cause weight gain!

[a dense loner]

i thought my feet were hanging out of bed so i got out to tuck them in

[saltbeef]

take creatine, the first thing you see on the label is it aids recovery, the only thing better than this is roids...

Is that for true? I thought creatine just made the body hold on to water and therefore cause weight gain!

wow! i bet nearly all professional sportsmen think what can i take to make me retain water and gain weight rather than what will improve my ability to perform (insert as applicable) sport. 

[mark s]

i thought my feet were hanging out of bed so i got out to tuck them in

Don't know what the fuck you're on about there,but I laughed out loud or 'lol' at that.pisser

As for roids we call them supplements that work,in the gym.
Suppose a lot of people will stick their noses up at the mention of steroids (s.t.w) without knowing the reality
A small dose will allow full on training all week.
There's a lot of crap supplements out there that cost a lot of money and will have the same effect as a palm reading or homeopathy

[a dense loner]

take creatine, the first thing you see on the label is it aids recovery, the only thing better than this is roids...

Is that for true? I thought creatine just made the body hold on to water and therefore cause weight gain!

no saltus, the question asked was what will help me to recover quicker after training. the answer without question is creatine. i made the roids reference to stop pedantic dicks pointing out that roids were actually better. creatine and water retention, maybe 5 yrs ago n maybe if you were beasting the gym. quick tip for not retaining loads of water, don't drink loads of water
wow! i bet nearly all professional sportsmen think what can i take to make me retain water and gain weight rather than what will improve my ability to perform (insert as applicable) sport. 

[lincoln.3]

Creatine - For producing power, for muscle mass, for ongoing energy, for rapid recovery.

Or so it says on the packet!!! Is this not ideal for climbing then??

[mrjonathanr]

Depends whether you like retaining water and putting weight on. Do a search, you'll find something.

[Oldmanmatt]

OOkkayy...

The retaining water thing...

Is almost (note qualification) certainly a myth, from some suspect early science.

Over doing it is risky, although it seems that excess Creatine is expelled rather than burned as empty calories.

Certainly a better bet than protine supplements.

There are risks attached, especially if you have dodgy kidneys (and you might not know).

It is in common mainstream use across a variety of sports (not a recommendation in it's self).

If in doubt, check with the Quack.

I did and have so far had reasonable results.

I only use it on training days (before and after) and kicked to touch the whole loading phase etc (as the Quack said, the science on that part is not as good as it could be).

I have not gained any weight since starting, although I do feel stronger.

Weight gain is not my objective, I just want to make the most of my currently limited training time.

My weekly performance checks show some improvement (number of pull ups etc).

Recovery?

Not sure, I only train every other day anyway and a 48hr rest is enough.

In better times, I swim (sprints) on the rest days and that seems to help the recovery. Certainly shakes off any stiffness.

[abarro81]

I tried creatine. I got heavy. I had to piss about every 2 minutes. I didn't notice myself get stronger or recover faster. I stopped using it.

[a dense loner]

let me guess you had to piss about once every 2 mins cos you were drinking loads of water? you got heavier cos you retained all this water? climbing is a hard game to know if you're getting stronger, the only ways you can accurately measure this have nothing to do with climbing. if you didn't recover faster then i would join a circus cos you're obviously not normal. if all someone wants to do is do a few probs on the grit or the lime then taking supplements etc obviously won't help you and is a complete waste of money and bladder dysfunction, but if you use training supplements while actually training...
oh fuck i'm shitloads stronger than i was 3 months ago

[clm]

i thought my feet were hanging out of bed so i got out to tuck them in

Don't know what the fuck you're on about there,but I laughed out loud or 'lol' at that.pisser

As for roids we call them supplements that work,in the gym.I
Suppose a lot of people will stick their noses up at the mention of steroids (s.t.w) without knowing the reality
A small dose will allow full on training all week.
There's a lot of crap supplements out there that cost a lot of money and will have the same effect as a palm reading or homeopathy

Is this guy trolling? And yes, I am sticking my nose up. Good nutrition works for me. Training nights are a two dinners night. One before, one after. Cue dense questioning whether I should call itvtraining at all.

[Johnny Brown]

He's seen the results.

[a dense loner]

yes they're not good, being tall and really light clm should have done much more than a couple of 7'cs. clm's a poster boy for the anti-training brigade. looks good swanning around on 7b's never climbed harder than 7c. depends what you want out of climbing? imagine what you could do with some structured training clm?

[Johnny Brown]

Get bored rigid I imagine. And then ruin his enjoyment by constantly judging his performance against expected training 'gains'.

Give me swanning around on 7bs any day.

[Oldmanmatt]

Right.

Two weeks on creatine. (Sunday is my test day)

Weight before (First thing AM) 74.8kg
Weight now                            75.2kg
(normally have a variation of 1-1.5kg during and from day to day).

I do the test after training, so when tired (just seems more realistic).

Pull Ups (with 6kg weight belt)                           Two weeks ago- 7, today- 13
(I do twenty at start of sesh without belt, all done on finger board (jugs)).
Press ups (with 6 kg belt)                                  TWA- 29, today 33
Iron cross (never tried before TWA) (no weights) TWA- 1:15 min, Today 2:00 min
Planks (as Iron cross)                                        TWA- 1:15 min, Today 2:40 min

Given that my training has been interupted and inconsistent.

I call that a strength improvement.

Also noticed distinct improvement on the campus board during training.

Still can't on sight V7...

Might take more than two weeks for that.

[mark s]

Don't go expecting miracles from creatine,it is after all allowed by the ioc and wada.if it was any real good they would put a stop to it.

[Jim]

clm's never climbed a 7c

[saltbeef]

clm's never climbed a 7c

jesus. maybe he should take a leaf out of your book and do some pull ups?