[remus]

Alright chaps, currently in the market for a new harness and looking for some suggestions/advice.

Im mainly a trad man, though i dabble in sport and winter occasionally, so the harness has got to be fairly versatile (carry lots of gear, fit on over lots of clothes, that sort of thing) and preferably not fall apart after a season. Bonus points for cheapness as well.

Current top contender is the Arc'ywhatsit R320: http://www.rockrun.com/products/Arc%27Teryx-R320-Harness.html

Is the lack of adjustable leg loops is likely to be a problem?

[cheque]

The DMM Renegade is cheaper and has more gear loops. I like mine and it's still going strong after three years. A couple of people have got one after being impressed with mine. As well as having 7 gear loops the main thing I like about it is that the padded bit rotates on the belt so it's never wonky even if you put more clothes on or gain weight.

It also has adjustable legs. I find these more of a hassle than anything, but I don't do winter which I believe is what you need them for. They make a version with elastic legs and yellow bits rather than red which all their sponsored climbers (at least one of whom posts on here) seem to wear. That may be even better, not least as it's cheaper. 

 

[205Chris]

I've got an Arcteryx R320. It's not cheap but it is lightweight and very comfortable (which is a big plus if you spend a long time hanging off bolts or falling off lots like me).

I've also got a Black Diamond blizzard harness which I used to use for trad but recently I've started using my Arcteryx harness for everything. 4 gear loops should be plenty (unless you're planning some sort of big wall expedition) and I've never had a problem with fixed leg loops either (but I don't winter climb).

[remus]

Cheers gents, just the sort of info Im after.

Any opinions on the gear loops of the Renegade/R320? Always been a bit skeptical of the floppy plastic tub style on the renegade, though having never actually tried it that could be unfounded.

[csurfleet]

I've got the version of the renegade without the adjustable legs (maverik??) and its really good. Not had any issues with the gear loops and after a year of abuse it still looks pretty much new.

[moose]

I've a Renegade - comfortable and I've no problem with the actual construction of the gear loops.... but they are a bit too small for my liking. 

When tradding I prefer to have gear of the same type on the same loop (all nuts on one loop, all cams on another, two loops for qd's etc, a loop for slings and belay stuff).  But, the smallness of the Renegade loops sometimes means I have to either split similar gear between loops (which offends my OCD sensibilities) or the gear gets really bunched up and can be an encumbrance or hard to retrieve.  Only really a problem for long trad pitches, but for those I think I'd prefer a harness with 5 large loops than seven small ones.

[Johnny Brown]

I've got the DMM one with the seven gear loops and the elasticated leg loops. I never thought I'd buy a harness without adjustable leg-loops but the elastic is a stroke of genius - it keeps 'the boys in the barracks' securely even whilst wearing shorts, yet still allowing you to squeeze a cramponed boot through. Seven gear loops is a real boon on a big trad pitch, god knows how anyone gets on with four little plastic ones on a Petzl harness. My only gripe is they might be better sloping front to back, but its pretty minor.

[moose]

My only gripe is they might be better sloping front to back, but its pretty minor.

That's a point I forgot to mention.... the slope of the loops can result in gear hanging in the way of my legs - nuts in the way of my nuts, so to speak (especially annoying on slabby pitches).  That said, it might be exacerbated by my having the waist belt cranked as tight as it will go (I need a medium for the rise length but I have a small waist).

[slackline]

god knows how anyone gets on with four little plastic ones on a Petzl harness.

My mate uses one of these...



Not to everyones taste (including mine) but it solves the problem with the lack of gear loops on his harness (and on occassions can make swapping over the rack when leading quick, but also more risky, drop it and everythings gone  ).

[Johnny Brown]

Awful things - if you've got a rack that big the last thing you want is it hanging ABOVE your centre of gravity.

[SA Chris]

nuts in the way of my nuts

I managed to end up with one in very close contact while performing the belly over move onto the ledge on Spartan Slab. Something best avoided.

I also prefer 5 big loops, and agree the elasticated leg loos are a master stroke if you intend using the harness summer and winter.

[slackline]

Awful things - if you've got a rack that big the last thing you want is it hanging ABOVE your centre of gravity.

Yeah, not something I use, and as you say cumbersome particularly on overhangs...


Hanging about... by slack---line, on Flickr

[SA Chris]

I'm amazed someone needs something like that for Gritstone routes. How much gear does he carry?

[slackline]

  Doubles of everything, paranoid about not having the right piece and tends to lace routes (probably why he ended up friggin the top crack )

[SA Chris]

Obviously more of a big waller than an alpinist.

[Paul B]

My only gripe is they might be better sloping front to back, but its pretty minor.

I'd heard similar complaints about the DMM harnesses i.e. that the shape of the gear loops makes it pretty difficult to put things back where they came from.

I'm not a fan of the arc'teryx offerings where they put their fancy new weave in the waist belt but then use cheese wire for leg loops (I think this only applies to the sportclimbing 2 loop version).

[Johnny Brown]

i.e. that the shape of the gear loops makes it pretty difficult to put things back

I haven't had any problems with that, I just suspect it might be better if gear slid back not forward. The loops are small enough to make it a minor deal though, and not having tried the waist belt upside down yet, I may be wrong.

[slackline]

Thought this "innovation" from Black Diamond was rather neat...

Obviously more of a big waller than an alpinist.

Thankfully he slimmed things down for the Dolomites the other month (but only because of the weight allowance on the hold baggage and having to take a tent!).

[SA Chris]

Thought this "innovation" from Black Diamond was rather neat...

Am I looking wrong, or would the plastic buckle to the right (not the one he slides) bear load in the event of a fall?

[Paul B]

it looks free to move so effectively its working the same way the elasticated leg looped harness do (or thats how I see it). It'll therefore be just as uncomfortable to hang in for long periods of time.

[tommytwotone]

Awful things - if you've got a rack that big the last thing you want is it hanging ABOVE your centre of gravity.

Yeah, not something I use, and as you say cumbersome particularly on overhangs...


Hanging about... by slack---line, on Flickr

What's that on his hands? Gloves? Or is it some very dark tape?

[slackline]

What's that on his hands? Gloves? Or is it some very dark tape?

Jammies, he has soft hands (awww!) and doesn't like getting them mangled on grit cracks.

[SA Chris]

it looks free to move so effectively its working the same way the elasticated leg looped harness do (or thats how I see it). It'll therefore be just as uncomfortable to hang in for long periods of time.

Trying to work it out, and not sure. At least an elasticated leg loop has a backstop of stitched material that will take the load in a fall, but it looks like if that buckle takes a load and snaps there will be enough space in the leg loop that it won't take any load at all, and all loading will be on the waist belt.

I can see it being useful for say an outdoor ed centre or climbing wall needing to make large adjustments to suit vastly differing body shapes, but I've found that elasticated leg loops have enough adjustment for an individual even taking summer / winter skinny / carrying a few pounds and cycling a lot into account.

Possibly just another innovation that might end up going the same way as trac up leashes and magnetic gates on krabs.

[remus]

thanks again for the knowledge people, helpful stuff. Think a trip to a shop is in order to try a few harnesses on and fondle some gear loops.

[TobyD]

another vote for DMM Maverick. Basically, i never really notice, or think about it when climbing, which is what I (and i would have thought most people) really want out of them. O, and it's quick and easy to put on or take off. And cheap, for a harness.

[csurfleet]

That's a point I forgot to mention.... the slope of the loops can result in gear hanging in the way of my legs - nuts in the way of my nuts, so to speak (especially annoying on slabby pitches).

I have to admit I found this too - I solved it by putting gear on the back four loops and quickdraws on the front two - less weight over my legs and thus less annoying. I'd forgotten I did that is become so automatic now!

[remus]

A quick update in return for all your very helpful advice.

I went for the R320 in the end because it was a good fit and i prefer the gear loop setup, I also got it relatively cheaply from planetfear (£70 instead of £90 RRP.) I've had it for about 3 weeks now and have used it a fair bit including some multi-pitch, some cragging and a brief shunting session. Overall impression is very good. It's noticeably lighter than my last harness (an old petzl thing) and generally well thought out.

First thing that struck me is that the waist loop and leg loops are very thin (as in padding thickness) and feel quite stiff, almost like a thin sheet of plastic. I was a bit worried that this might 'crease' or generally get damaged through general abuse but this doesnt seem to be the case so far. its survived being crammed in to the sack along with the general wear and
tear of climbing with no noticable damage. Havent had any issues with comfort. hanging around on tiny stances covered in bird shit is never much fun but neither is it an  overly painful experience.

The gear loops are pretty awesome. Theyve got a cool little plastic cover thing that keep them stiff and has a slight slant so your gear tends to the front of the gear loop. you can take the plastic thing off and switch it around so that your gear tends towards the back of the gear loop. The front 2 gear loops are monsterous. You could quite comfortably carry 10 quickdraws on each one. The rear 2 gear loops are a more normal size.

The haul loop is a bit shit, its just some weedy little plastic D ring through a small (but sturdy looking) loop of webbing. Id be pretty reticent about using it as a haul loop as it is, though it looks like an easy job to cut of the D ring and replace it with a bit of cord to make something a bit beefier.

The buckle is quite nice. Very easy to use when you're putting the harness on (compared to the old petzl thing at least) but a bit fiddly to get it to release. Perhaps not a bad thing as it means your unlikely to be able to loosen the harness off without meaning to, but still feels like it should be easier to do. Theres a little loop of fabric for tucking excess strap out of the way, though i find it a bit minimal for my needs, as the harness is quite big on me so theres quite a bit of extra webbing left. Pretty minor point but one of those small anoyances.

The tie in points feel very sturdy, though apparently a few people have had issues with the longevity of the webbing so I'll reserve judgemment for a year or two.

Finally, the elastic connecting the leg loops to the waist belt seems somewhat inadequate. Its already looking stretched out and generally like its about to bite the dust, bit annoying
considering the harness is only 3 weeks old.

All in all a very nice harness. Theyve thought pretty hard about every aspect of the harness and it shows. i have some doubts about its durability but only time will tell if theyre founded or not.

[Paul B]

I agree but isn't that just the reality of lighter kit? Its hte price of the arc'teryx harnesses that really get me.

However, I've just gone for the Womens R280 after trying a lot of harnesses on as the only other real option was the Hirundos but the rear gear loops are right at the back or going for something without ziplock buckles (a luxury I've had on all my harnesses which made me reticent to give it up!).

I read somewhere that the Edelrid harnesses were meant to be as comfortable as the arc'teryx. They're not, they're ridiclously stiff and pretty uncomfortable with a stupid buckle that faces the opposite way to logic and looks incredibly easy to catch. They do look good though