I did the stand yesterday, Me and CJD thought this was fair at or around 7c+. I am not convinced the start will add 2 grades, only had one go at this before it started pissing down. But that is exactly what I thought about Lou Ferrino without the pockets, and I still haven't managed that so I will refrain from an opinion at the moment. Doylo thinks 7c, but hasnt done the top bit yet.