i'd just like to point out that whilst my post about taking the draws out of mecca might have appeared blunt and indicated a less than considerate attitude to joe's clips, el mocho, myself and one other had quite a long discussion about the relative merits of various courses of action that would mean that the owner (at that point unknown) would get their equipment back. (which they did by the way)now it seems to me that, apart from joe being slightly inconvenienced, our actions have resulted in raven tor being de equipped which i very much doubt would have happened had we 'asked around'. they've been there for years and no-one has done anything. well we were there and one of us was motivated enough to remove them so they got removed. with respect to whether we should have waited - this is obviously debatable but as it happens all of our time is limited (either by work or childcare) so it would have been another month before i get back there and at least a couple of weeks until el m gets bacjk there so this would have delayed matters by who knows how long? forever maybe? maybe by the time we got back to the tor every route would have been equipped. and maybe this was the week that the national trust turned up and banned us? we'll never know about that one but at least it is no longer a possibility.
he didn't have a draw the right length for the 3rd clip (the critical draw
Quote from: Robbohe didn't have a draw the right length for the 3rd clip (the critical draw As someone with some experience of inspecting kit, I saw this draw over the weekend and I'd say this is the single most badly damaged piece of gear I have ever seen still in use. If I saw a mate rack up with it I would have physically prevented them from using it. Access issues aside, the third clip was a very nasty accident about to happen.
having no time/inclination to read the previous 8 pages
Quote from: fatboySlimfast on July 27, 2011, 10:34:58 amhaving no time/inclination to read the previous 8 pages That attitude is what got us in a mess in the first place
I appreciate my opinion doesn't seem to be as valid as that of other people on this site
Simon, as the owner of this fine establishment, can't you take this thread out into the woods and put it out of it's misery with a heavy shovel?
It would be relevant if the draws were removed because they looked dangerous, but that WASN'T why they were removed.
QuoteI appreciate my opinion doesn't seem to be as valid as that of other people on this siteThat's nonsense ! your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's .... it just happens to be wrong Well played Sir.
I appreciate my opinion doesn't seem to be as valid as that of other people on this siteThat's nonsense ! your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's .... it just happens to be wrong
having no time/inclination to read the previous 8 pages can i assume thata) people generally are saying draws should not be left on the crag as its unsightly at public venues and makes us look like scruffy bastardsb)other people are aguing that they have been inconvienienced due to the stripping of insitu draws as its really hard to re gear a sport route................
I don't know about the access at other crags, but I do know that Raven Tor is owned by the National Trust and they regularly inspect the crag. I also know, having asked them during one such visit, that they neither understand nor like fixed gear
that's very interesting scary
You should be able to find a video of testing the perma-draw removed from Mecca's fourth bolt at the bottom of this news item http://dmmclimbing.com/news/2011/07/mecca-quickdraw-test/ Definitely not as strong as you'd like if you were far above it.
Couple of minor points to add - not sure how long those draws had been in place, but a fair bit less than five years I think.
I've also taken Stone's? slings out of Body Machine. If anyone feels especially strongly that the bolt protecting the rockover is particularly hard to clip let me know and I'll put an extra one in lower down.