[James Yeah]

Has anyone tried this supplement yet?  It seems to be getting rave reviews from lots of other sport disciplines lately?  Seems to have some scientific merit at least and doesn't seem to have any real negative effects.   I know a lot of my road biking friends have started taking it to help with endurance.

I was just wondering if anyone one on here had thought about using it to enhance their climbing?

Quick link on beta alanine:

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/article-beta-alanine.aspx

[account_inactive]

I tried some of this last year. It made my skin prickle

[duncan]

Has anyone tried this supplement yet?  It seems to be getting rave reviews from lots of other sport disciplines lately?  Seems to have some scientific merit at least and doesn't seem to have any real negative effects.   I know a lot of my road biking friends have started taking it to help with endurance.

I was just wondering if anyone one on here had thought about using it to enhance their climbing?

Quick link on beta alanine:

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/article-beta-alanine.aspx

Two studies cited in the link you provide looked at change in exercise capacity.  One (Harris et al ) had 11 participants, too few to be able to draw any real conclusions from, and the study was supported by a supplement company.  They reported small benefits.  The other (Kendrick et al) had more (26) participants.  The study funding is unclear from the article but one of the authors works for a supplement company.  They found "... no significant effect of beta-ala supplementation on any of the exercise parameters measured, mass or % body fat".  I can’t find a third study (Ponte et al 2007) that appears to investigate exercise performance in any of the usual databases (PubMed etc.).

Not yet convinced!

[lagerstarfish]

I tried some of this last year. It made my skin prickle

did that increase friction?

[Big Dave]

The skin prickling is known as 'parasthesia', usually in the face/hands and doesn't last too long after taking it.

Suggested dosage is 1.6g twice a day and to load it into your system, supposedly to be the best thing to use alongside creatine for strength/endurance, plenty of science to back this up.

IMO it does increase endurance when I've used it.

[DaveyDave]

I've had good results from the suppository version, Beta Analine.

[Dexter]

From what I can see it may help endurance but has no effect in power therefore it may be useful for sport climbing andor trad but probably not short boulder problems this may help if people can access it http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20479615

[Dexter]

and appatrently the pins and needles sensation has no long term problems but there was one study which said something about the possiblilty of increase cancer risk but it was a bit vague and wishy washy and not really based on science that I could tell

[slackline]

PubMed is accessible to all for free, it only contains the abstracts though and often the devil is in the detail.

However, if a given article or journal is open access there will often be a link to it.

I've not got the time to go and look at that review article, but I'd hazard a guess that most articles included in the review are similar to that which Duncan mentions above which suffer from small sample sizes.

Its also worth bearing in mind Why Most Published Research Findings are False (Free open access).

[Dexter]

ah sorry I linked that one because the original I found was done through my uni proxy so wouldnt work however I did read it through and the science of it is pretty sound from a chemistry point of view. Bascially the beta alanine is a precursor to carnosine which regulates pH in the muscles so decreases the effect of lactic acid build up so give better endurance.

edit: beta alanine is also the limiting factor in carnosine production so more beta alanine=more carnosine

[James Yeah]

Duncan -  I was just using that link to explain what beta alanine is rather than for the scientific merit of it and the linked studies.



I only ask this question about beta alanine as i've read a lot of top sports people are now using, lots of top end road cyclists (british team being one) and the likes but also a lot of gymnasts etc and wondered whether it'd have a benefit for climbing.


I'm curious to try it simply because it seems relatively safe and useful compared to other supplements.

[slackline]

Duncan -  I was just using that link to explain what beta alanine is rather than for the scientific merit of it and the linked studies.

But the only way you'll get objective evidence to answer you question as to somethings efficacy (which ultimately boils down to "Does this work?") is through unbiased research where there is no conflict of interest and a decent sample size appropriate for the effect size.

Try Google Scholar for a greater breadth of research.

[James Yeah]

Oh i realise that, i was just hoping someone on here had used it and had some benefit from it really.  I will certainly look more into the scientific side of it before i use it, i was just basing my views on a few articles i read.  There's a few pages in this months Cycling Weekly regarding it and it got me interested.

[duncan]

Oh i realise that, i was just hoping someone on here had used it and had some benefit from it really.

Nothing personal James, but I tend to be more sceptical than that when faced with the latest supplement/garment/exercise fad.  I guarantee you will always find someone who has found something benefited them. 

I had a dig and found two reviews:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20479615
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20091069
Both talk convincingly about the biochemistry of beta-alanine supplementation: 'why it should work'.  The 'does it actually work' bit is equivocal in the Sale et al article.  The more recent Artioli et al review is much more enthusiastic.  From the abstract summarising their findings:

"Studies on beta-alanine supplementation and exercise performance have demonstrated improvements in performance during multiple bouts of high-intensity exercise and in single bouts of exercise lasting more than 60 s. Similarly, beta-alanine supplementation has been shown to delay the onset of neuromuscular fatigue. ... some aspects of endurance performance, such as anaerobic threshold and time to exhaustion, can be enhanced."

Which, if true, makes beta-alanine potentially very useful for sport climbers if not boulderers. 

However, after having read the full article, I'm less enthusiastic.  For nearly every study that reports a positive effect, there is one that reports no effect.   For example, 7 studies evaluating the effect on multiple bouts of high-intensity exercise.  3 studies (50 participants in total) reported improved performance, 4 studies (64 participants in total) reported no difference.  This is not reflected in the author’s summary, which is rather concerning as many people will not have access to the full paper and only read the abstract.

Given that a supplement with such characteristic side-effects (tingling lips) cannot be tested ‘blind’, a large placebo effect is quite likely.

[Big Dave]

Oh i realise that, i was just hoping someone on here had used it and had some benefit from it really.  I will certainly look more into the scientific side of it before i use it, i was just basing my views on a few articles i read.  There's a few pages in this months Cycling Weekly regarding it and it got me interested.

Best way of finding out, is try it for yourself, it isn't that expensive.

I supplement with beta alanine and find it beneficial, for climbing and other sports I do.

[Fultonius]

Best way of finding out, is try it for yourself, it isn't that expensive.

Really? What if it's got some unknown side effects that they haven't found yet?

I supplement with beta alanine and find it beneficial, for climbing and other sports I do.

How can you say that?  Have you cloned youself and now you're comparing your results side by side with the cloned version who'se not taking it. Anecdotal non-evidence like this does nothing to help those trying to make an informed decision.

[rodma]

Anecdotal non-evidence like this does nothing to help those trying to make an informed decision.

Erm, isn't that all that you can get by asking for this kind of advice on a forum, particularly when asking if anyone has had personal experience 

[slackline]

Anecdotal non-evidence like this does nothing to help those trying to make an informed decision.

Erm, isn't that all that you can get by asking for this kind of advice on a forum, particularly when asking if anyone has had personal experience 

Which is why both Duncan and I are advocating researching and reading the primary research literature.

[Fultonius]

Erm, isn't that all that you can get by asking for this kind of advice on a forum, particularly when asking if anyone has had personal experience 

Not really, you get lots of people telling you you're asking the wrong question and pointing you to the SCIENCE 

Personal anecdotes on this kinda thing ARE NOT WORTH SHIT, OK?

[rodma]

Which is why both Duncan and I are advocating researching and reading the primary research literature.

People seem to ask on forums because they can't be arsed reading and researching.

Personal anecdotes on this kinda thing ARE NOT WORTH SHIT, OK?

Is that your personal experience 

[Fultonius]

The problem with asking on forums though is you mainly get 2 views:

1. It's AWESOME - I CAN REALLY FEEL THE DIFFERENCE.  Uuuhuu, suuure you can
2. IT GAVE ME CANCER (or some other scare story)

It doesn't really matter how many people reply with answers like 1 above, if the research carried out by supplement pill-pusherscan't even find a benefit, then it's not looking too good. 

If all people want is some personal opinion to back up thier pre-conceived wish to take supplements, forums are probably the perfect place to ask 

[rodma]

The problem with asking on forums though is you mainly get 2 views:

1. It's AWESOME - I CAN REALLY FEEL THE DIFFERENCE.  Uuuhuu, suuure you can
2. IT GAVE ME CANCER (or some other scare story)

It doesn't really matter how many people reply with answers like 1 above, if the research carried out by supplement pill-pusherscan't even find a benefit, then it's not looking too good. 

If all people want is some personal opinion to back up thier pre-conceived wish to take supplements, forums are probably the perfect place to ask 

  especially on the matter of peoples' responses

When I was a hell of a lot younger, i took creatine for a bit, since i had real issues building any muscle at all. I've never had the inclination since then to supplement with anything other than sports drinks for hydration and recovery, and the odd protein shake for easy protein intake post-training. I've never been at a stage of lean-ness, strong-ness or fitness that I felt that taking a supplement would improve my performance, compared to not drinking wine/beer, not stuffing my fat face etc. but I guess I can see why folk who are a lot more dedicated to their training and diet might get to a stage where they feel this would make a difference.

[monkoffunk]

This has been discussed a bit here and elsewhere over the years, but interested to see whether any opinions have changed given that there is perhaps more data out there now.

Big review article here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4501114/#CR42

Meta analysis mentioned in above here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3374095/

Of note, most of the primary research studies are very small. The meta analysis does include published negative studies though, counting in its favour.

Can anyone more clued up on sport/climbing science say how this body evidence compares to some of the other supplements/practice out there?

My take home from this is that if you buy the conclusions of the studies then beta alanine may have a small role to play in power endurance style climbing, probably not bouldering and probably not long endurance. Thoughts?

[petejh]

https://examine.com/supplements/beta-alanine/

Tells you all you need to know with links to all the studies.


I tried it. Seemed to increase my capacity to climb before getting terminally pumped. Which is in line with what some of the studies have found and not in line with what some of the the other studies have found. 

Try it and see and report back. 4 weeks of it isn't going to kill you. Maybe..

[duncan]

The key phrase for ukb readership is "Beta-alanine attenuates neuromuscular fatigue, particularly in older subjects..."

A lot of industry-sponsored small studies which make the results prone to publication bias (studies with negative findings are more likely to stay in someones bottom drawer, mainly because negative findings are less sexy). I will read the metaanalysis when I have more time.