[shark]

Is it me being a cynical old fuck but does anyone else think this UKC news item is whiffy, a wind-up or just plain weird ? i.e unheard of old scrote with no trackrecord cited, seiges a pegged Edwards route that is so obscure that its not the UKC database at a crag so esoteric that it doesnt have a moderator, until he reaches the point where he headpoints it without clipping the pegs and claims an E8/9 ascent with Alan James likening it to the ethical dilemmas in the Cad saga and trying to make some comedy out of his lycra and eating Wispa bars en route. WTF?

[Paul B]

the boots are somewhat special too.

[danm]

I've given up on "that" channel after the amount of abuse directed at the keen one got ridiculous. News items like that confirm it was a good decision. Is it OK to say that, mods? 

[tomtom]

same shit different day...

I believe the Dutch have a word for news stories during a story drought.. which loosely translates as 'cucumber news' (i.e. man who grows huge cucumber makes the headlines...).

Personally, I thought the 'ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE, END OF THE WORLD, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE' headlines because someone puts two bolt studs on the top edge of a cliff... was a 'little over the top'. Jesus, if someone wants to whinge about how man has altered their environment, take a look at Plymouth town centre...

[Muenchener]

Absolutely ... "unheard of old scrote making inflated grade claims at obscure venue" is totally out of order ... unless it's abroad of course 

Best make hay while the sun shines then, sunshine. You won't have the chance much longer: Sonnie will be lining up to repeat & downgrade your Squamish 5.15s

[Serpico]

Odd no doubt, but on the same topic did anyone notice/understand this post?

[duncan]

No idea about the route or the climber. 

I can't see the connection with The Cad saga myself, unless it is subtly trying to draw a parallel between a "dark horse" ascent and Cathcart's widely doubted solo. 

The Cad history is mostly incorrect.  Ron's original bolt (Troll self-drilling caving anchor - as described in Rock Athlete - very distinctive 70s technology ie shit) was still there in late 1984 well after Cathcart's alleged ascent (in 1981?). 

[chris_j_s]

Odd no doubt, but on the same topic did anyone notice/understand this post?

Noticed it? Yes. Understood it? No!

I assume it was intended to be ambiguous in order to troll but it doesn't seem to be working yet!

[Grubes]

Odd no doubt, but on the same topic did anyone notice/understand this post?

What a hero ... 

[Fiend]

Who has got the bigger cucumber eh....

[lagerstarfish]

Burn the witch!

Cucumbers that size must be The Devil's work.

[duncan]

The Cad history is mostly incorrect.  Ron's original bolt (Troll self-drilling caving anchor - as described in Rock Athlete - very distinctive 70s technology ie shit) was still there in late 1984 well after Cathcart's alleged ascent (in 1981?).

Yeah I was thinking that also. That it was someone else who chopped the residual bolt?

Fawcett's original bolt was virtually useless by 1984 - hard steel bolt, aluminium alloy hanger and salt water are not a happy combination - and it was replaced not long after.  I've no idea who did this.  Nick Dixon climbed it without clipping the new bolt (in 1986?) and the hanger of the replacement bolt was chopped sometime later. 

The stud is still there today and can have a wire looped over, a truly British compromise!

I'm pretty sure this is the sequence of events, can any other oldies remember this far back?

[SA Chris]

Odd no doubt, but on the same topic did anyone notice/understand this post?

Whatever you linked to is gone now.

[GCW]

No surprise there!

[granticus]

Is it me being a cynical old fuck but does anyone else think this UKC news item is whiffy, a wind-up or just plain weird ?

  Pissed me right off, particularly because there is some kind of fUKCed up ethical point being made about not using pegs, when the guy used the pegs for protection on a previous ascent and to pre-practice the route, so he basically had the route dialled...     If you want to make an ethical point climb it ground up, on sight and without using the pegs. 

[Probes]

The Cad history is mostly incorrect.  Ron's original bolt (Troll self-drilling caving anchor - as described in Rock Athlete - very distinctive 70s technology ie shit) was still there in late 1984 well after Cathcart's alleged ascent (in 1981?).

Yeah I was thinking that also. That it was someone else who chopped the residual bolt?

Fawcett's original bolt was virtually useless by 1984 - hard steel bolt, aluminium alloy hanger and salt water are not a happy combination - and it was replaced not long after.  I've no idea who did this.  Nick Dixon climbed it without clipping the new bolt (in 1986?) and the hanger of the replacement bolt was chopped sometime later. 

The stud is still there today and can have a wire looped over, a truly British compromise!

I'm pretty sure this is the sequence of events, can any other oldies remember this far back?

I clipped 'the bolt' in around 1995 and it was a strange wire ring affair, not a hanger. Needless to say it didnt inspire any confidence.

I too read that news item yesterday and thought WTF, this weird.

[shark]

Is it me being a cynical old fuck but does anyone else think this UKC news item is whiffy, a wind-up or just plain weird ?

  Pissed me right off, particularly because there is some kind of fUKCed up ethical point being made about not using pegs, when the guy used the pegs for protection on a previous ascent and to pre-practice the route, so he basically had the route dialled...     If you want to make an ethical point climb it ground up, on sight and without using the pegs. 

The article poses so many questions its hard to know where to start but these spring immediately to mind:

1. Who is this guy - he must my age and I've never read or heard about him so what's his trackrecord?
2. If he wasnt making an ethical point why did he do it and then go on to publicise it
3. Can you really grade it that much higher (assuming it is E6 in the first place) if the pegs are available to clip if you get wigged out?
4. To what extent did Alan James verify the ascent, quality and the difficulty
5. Why is Alan James making such a meal out of reporting it with confused and inaccurate analogies to the Cad
6. Are the Medwards pegs hammered into drilled slots/holes (effectively bolts) or in natural placements
7. Is it really E8/9 and a four star classic ? or another route that Nic Sellars will repeat and downgrade to a two star E5

[Serpico]

The article poses so many questions its hard to know where to start but these spring immediately to mind:

1. Who is this guy - he must my age and I've never read or heard about him so what's his trackrecord?
2. If he wasnt making an ethical point why did he do it and then go on to publicise it
3. Can you really grade it that much higher (assuming it is E6 in the first place) if the pegs are available to clip if you get wigged out?
4. To what extent did Alan James verify the ascent, quality and the difficulty
5. Why is Alan James making such a meal out of reporting it with confused and inaccurate analogies to the Cad
6. Is it really E8/9 and a four star classic ? or another route that Nic Sellars will repeat and downgrade to a two star E5
7. Why does this bother me so much?

[shark]

7. Why does this bother me so much?

  To quote a great Italian poet: This is really a journey inside myself, my mind, my obsessions, my weaknesses and my worst demons. I learnt something new about myself, and what I found out is a monster 

[Jaspersharpe]

Odd no doubt, but on the same topic did anyone notice/understand this post?

Mehdwards. 

[Probes]

Is it me being a cynical old fuck but does anyone else think this UKC news item is whiffy, a wind-up or just plain weird ?

  Pissed me right off, particularly because there is some kind of fUKCed up ethical point being made about not using pegs, when the guy used the pegs for protection on a previous ascent and to pre-practice the route, so he basically had the route dialled...     If you want to make an ethical point climb it ground up, on sight and without using the pegs. 

The article poses 1 question its easy to know where to start as it springs immediately to mind:

1. Is it complete made up bollocks?

[metal arms]

Is it me being a cynical old fuck but does anyone else think this UKC news item is whiffy, a wind-up or just plain weird ?

  Pissed me right off, particularly because there is some kind of fUKCed up ethical point being made about not using pegs, when the guy used the pegs for protection on a previous ascent and to pre-practice the route, so he basically had the route dialled...     If you want to make an ethical point climb it ground up, on sight and without using the pegs. 

The article poses no important questions and no-one cares.

[rginns]

same shit different day...

I believe the Dutch have a word for news stories during a story drought.. which loosely translates as 'cucumber news' (i.e. man who grows huge cucumber makes the headlines...).

Personally, I thought the 'ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE, END OF THE WORLD, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE' headlines because someone puts two bolt studs on the top edge of a cliff... was a 'little over the top'. Jesus, if someone wants to whinge about how man has altered their environment, take a look at Plymouth town centre...

 

[fried]

The only thing I want to know is why so many replies to nonexistent posts.

[shark]

Jesus, if someone wants to whinge about how man has altered their environment, take a look at Plymouth town centre...

Ah the South West  It's luverly down there

[SA Chris]

Doesn't it look like that because it was bombed to fuck in WWII and then rebuilt?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Blitz

It's a pretty heartless place though.

[tomtom]

Doesn't it look like that because it was bombed to fuck in WWII and then rebuilt?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Blitz

It's a pretty heartless place though.

Yup. Precisely.

[remus]

Is it me being a cynical old fuck but does anyone else think this UKC news item is whiffy, a wind-up or just plain weird ? i.e unheard of old scrote with no trackrecord cited, seiges a pegged Edwards route that is so obscure that its not the UKC database at a crag so esoteric that it doesnt have a moderator, until he reaches the point where he headpoints it without clipping the pegs and claims an E8/9 ascent with Alan James likening it to the ethical dilemmas in the Cad saga and trying to make some comedy out of his lycra and eating Wispa bars en route. WTF?

personally i find this automatic distrust quite distasteful.

The fact that no one here has heard of him is pretty irrelevant, especially given the northern centric nature of the members of this board. Given that you havent heard of him you then go on to say he has no track record, perhaps you just don't know about it? The point being that lack of knowledge on our part doesnt mean he doesn't have a track record.

To be clear, i agree the way the article is written is a little strange, but hey, thats UKC for you. Why the need to then criticize the ascent itself? Yeah he did the route in a strange style, but he's open about it and makes no false claims. He hasn't done anything wrong.

[Probes]

personally i find this automatic distrust quite distasteful.

The fact that no one here has heard of him is pretty irrelevant, especially given the northern centric nature of the members of this board. Given that you havent heard of him you then go on to say he has no track record, perhaps you just don't know about it? The point being that lack of knowledge on our part doesnt mean he doesn't have a track record.

To be clear, i agree the way the article is written is a little strange, but hey, thats UKC for you. Why the need to then criticize the ascent itself? Yeah he did the route in a strange style, but he's open about it and makes no false claims. He hasn't done anything wrong.
[/quote]

I dont think its a distrust, its just a quizickle look at a very strange event,  its a quite matured bloke wearing what can only described in this day an age as fancy dress, top roping a route to death, leading it a few times, then leading without a gear, a route no ones heard and the resulting strangely written, kinda of ethically misplaced article, that doesnt fit the 'norm' of ukc articles. It isnt uneducated to think they must be scrapping for stuff to do or trying to generate debate?

[shark]

Is it me being a cynical old fuck but does anyone else think this UKC news item is whiffy, a wind-up or just plain weird ? i.e unheard of old scrote with no trackrecord cited, seiges a pegged Edwards route that is so obscure that its not the UKC database at a crag so esoteric that it doesnt have a moderator, until he reaches the point where he headpoints it without clipping the pegs and claims an E8/9 ascent with Alan James likening it to the ethical dilemmas in the Cad saga and trying to make some comedy out of his lycra and eating Wispa bars en route. WTF?

personally i find this automatic distrust quite distasteful.

The fact that no one here has heard of him is pretty irrelevant, especially given the northern centric nature of the members of this board. Given that you havent heard of him you then go on to say he has no track record, perhaps you just don't know about it? The point being that lack of knowledge on our part doesnt mean he doesn't have a track record.

To be clear, i agree the way the article is written is a little strange, but hey, thats UKC for you. Why the need to then criticize the ascent itself? Yeah he did the route in a strange style, but he's open about it and makes no false claims. He hasn't done anything wrong.

As a sieger of routes myself I didn't criticise the ascent (although Granticus did). I also didn't say he had no trackrecord. That was a straw man of your creation. What I did ask was what his trackrecord is - a reasonable question given that other ways of substantiation are lacking given the location, history of the route and no word from others who have done or attempted this route in whatever style.

E8/9 is a big grade from an older climber who has popped up from nowhere. When somebody emerges with a claim like this tell my why it isn't OK to ask questions and why asking questions to verify something is distasteful.

[slackline]

Is it not just best to completely ignore UKC?

[shark]

Is it not just best to completely ignore UKC?

Is that directed at me ? Perhaps. It is quite a big thing to ignore if you have any interest in what the rest of the climbing world is up to. Personally I visit it to update my training diary/logbook and inevitably browse the site. I posted on the topic there because of the way the Cad saga was misrepresented but got such an imbecilic reply that I deleted my post. More fool me. The news items written by Jack are generally excellent. But the Hawkcraig trashed item and now this are plumbing new depths not seen since Ryan was editor. You are probably right I should completely ignore it and avoid getting wound up.   
 

[slackline]

No it wasn't aimed at anyone, I just remember most threads which were commenting on activity on UKC ending up the log-pile (eg 1, eg 2, eg 3, eg4).

And also recall that slagging calling into question the integrity of UKC caused hassle for owners/admin.

[shark]

No it wasn't aimed at anyone, I just remember most threads which were commenting on activity on UKC ending up the log-pile (eg 1, eg 2, eg 3, eg4).

Yeah - I didnt know whether to post about it in the log pile directly as it was a criticism of UKC reporting but it was also to try to get to the bottom of whether some punter of my age had in fact decided for whatever reason to pull their finger out and ended up doing something as hard as E8/9. 

[shark]

And also recall that slagging calling into question the integrity of UKC caused hassle for owners/admin.

OK Ok I get the message

Sorry

[GCW]

Surely you should be allowed to shit on your own carpet, if you want to?

[slackline]

Time for the  -pile then.

[Jaspersharpe]

The Medwards thread is a fucking classic.

[Oldmanmatt]

Being Cornish, the same age etc,etc, I have heard of him. I've been away from Kernow for some 20 years but from what I remember of him, it's probably a true account.
 Having lived outside the UK for so long, I'm frankly baffled by the whole ethics argument. Is it really such a crime against nature, to place a peg/bolt that you would need a pair of bino's to see from more than 50 mtrs away? (I'm gonna suffer for saying that, aren't I).
In the 80's and before, British climbing was centred in the north. The Grit and lime, produced great technical climbers; something much harder to achieve if you can only play on sopping, wind swept granite sea cliffs. I didn't manage to move up the grades untill I started making regular trips to the grit and Lime.
There are alot of forgotten climbers from that era and that area, who put up hard routes in terrible conditions but never achieved the technical abilities of the northern rockstars (or the recognition). Remember, there were no indoor walls, no competitions and no queues of punters looking to repeat accent....
One last thing on the ethics thing... If you climb past a bolt/peg, without clipping it, aren't you just into the territory of "Shit this is hard, I'm gonna fall, why the f*** didn't I clip that!!!"?

[Oldmanmatt]

Oh yeah, The tights are pretty sad and I'm not going to admit that I had the same tights (only in a blue green combo) right up till 90'ish.... I have some great pics, of pathetic tights, worn by some people of note who will pay me good money not to publish them......

[Teaboy]

If you break the story down into constitunent parts then there are no parts of it that are too out landish. Obvioulsy local climber redpointing a hard E6 is no biggie, likewise I'm sure there are many unrepeated and little known Medwards routes that are very good. I'm equally sure many could repeat their party pieces with minimal protection (which is all he's really done), the thing that seems a bit unlikly is whether or not this makes the route E8\9, this seems a bit unlikely to me given the crux is a DWS  (I'd have liked more details about the falls into the water as well, was he weighed down with his rack etc?), there is gear for some easy climbing and then presumably a good rest and gear before the last hard section. In short, I think the ascent took place as described but that the offered grade is a bit out. I've just realised I've graded a route from my arm chair with absolutly no knowledge of the climber, the climb or even the crag, look what you've made me do Simon! Where's the emoticon for 'I've become the sort of person I've always hated'?

I'm also not sure how much he went out to publicise, there were murmurings on the forum before so maybe UKC sought him out.

[mrjonathanr]

It's a very bold ascent it would appear. Of an E6. Without clipping all the gear.

[slackline]

Oh yeah, The tights are pretty sad and I'm not going to admit that I had the same tights (only in a blue green combo) right up till 90'ish.... I have some great pics, of pathetic tights, worn by some people of note who will pay me good money not to publish them......

Come on now, don't be shy, post them in this thread (if you're not sure how see here).

[Oldmanmatt]

Hmm.. Most of my pic's from that era don't exist digitally. I'm in Spain at the mo and they're in albums in the uk. However, I do have one or two here...
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you star of C4's "Grand Designs" and Co- founder of Alien Rock (and several other UK walls), Mr R, circa '89.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ok, that didn't work....
[/url]
scan0012 by oldmanmatt, on Flickr[/img]

[slackline]

Ok, that didn't work....

scan0012 by oldmanmatt, on Flickr[/img]

Somehow you added some extra BBCode at the start when pasting it in.  You don't need to type anything in here, just copy it from Flickr and paste here as it is.

Although there is a dedicated thread for such things (see the link I posted above).

[Probes]

I think Franco has just hit the nail on the head and summed the situation up nicely....

"There may be a pigeon, the prettiest pigeon in the world and many people enjoy that pigeon in its current state, but only a pigeon with no pegs in him can fly free and show us his real character.

Superb effort on freeing the pigeon, that is after all why most of us started climbing."

[slackline]

I think that fall might have affected him by the sounds of it.

[Grubes]

I think UKC trying to sponsor him scared him the most he even quit his blog after that ..

[Rocksteady]

On the other hand, his 'pigeon, fly-free' ethos may be what led him to fall in the first place?

[mark s]

Fuck the route,I'm still laughing at the "cucumber news" and finally ......

[Moff]

I posted on the topic there because of the way the Cad saga was misrepresented but got such an imbecilic reply that I deleted my post. More fool me. 
 

I don't know. It adds to the UKC moderation paranoia (I assumed they deleted your post ;-) Plus we'd never know that little more about cucumbers.

(Offwidth on Moff's computer)

[tomtom]

For all those cucumber news fans... read all about it here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silly_season#Other_names