[horn]

anyone has advice on a very thick sheated, abrasion-resistant half rope?

to be used on rock only, sometimes in guiding or guiding-like situations (weak, unaware following climber that takes swings, gets hauled or helped with a very tight rope, etc...), sometimes in parties of 3, occasionally in rope-killing places like wadi rum.

i'm aware of the beal pro mountain and edelrid kestrel being advertised as what i need but i wonder aboud other brands/models.

Mammut Genesis would be a good option, it's a whopping 49% sheath and a seriously tough rope (on offer at Outside at the mo) Spec wise it comes up ever so slightly better than the Pro Mountain.
We've also had a lot of use out of the Sterling Duetto. They're a bit shy on their figures (can't find a sheath percentage on them), but they've definitely taken a hammering and just seem to keep on going. Duettos also "feel" nicer to use than the Genesis (IMO)

[groovedog]

Anyone got any knowledge on a decent deal on an 80m?

My current rope is an Edelwiess 9.5mm Energy that i've had to chop numerous times. The worst wearing rope i've ever had.

Looking for something with longevity for Euro trips onsighting and redpointing, rather than half rope kind of lightness that within a few sessions working something its fluffed.

Was thinking perhaps a Sterling Velocity, Mammut Infinity, revelation?

[Paul B]

Buy a Sterling ION 2. We used it as a sport rope in the UK, then for our States trip, and finally passed it onto somebody in the valley (it was still in very good condition) simply because we didn't have enough baggage allowance to get it back home.

(Although as it was mine, and thus clearly cursed he took a fairly nasty solo-aid fall busting up his ankle/lower leg and requiring self-rescue).

Coincidentally, I noticed these were on offer in CragX (not useful to Habrich, sorry).

[moose]

My 9.8mm Sterling is by far the best rope I've had (the worst being a 9.5mm Mammut which needed chopping twice within a month of weekend use - not like I fell on it that much either).  I fancy a new 80m rope for holiday but I've resisted every tempting (but non-Sterling) bargain I've seen recently - if need be, I would prefer to just pay more for the rope I really want.

[SpanishJuan]

I won a sterling rope a few years ago from Rock On and it has worn really well. I still miss my Beal Joker though

[T_B]

Some very good deals on Sterling ropes on Rock and Run today e.g. 50m 9.8 Velocity £75.

[Duma]

Thanks for the tip T_B, new string on its way!

[cheque]

Anyone used an Edelweiss Curve 9.8?

[abarro81]

Not used that but have an Edelweiss 9.2. Handles nicely, runs well. Initially was prone to twisting up but that sorted out with a bit of use, and even when bad was better than my mammut infinity. Wear seems pretty standard for the diameter. [full disclosure: got the rope free]

[Wood FT]

Not used that but have an Edelweiss 9.2. Handles nicely, runs well. Initially was prone to twisting up but that sorted out with a bit of use, and even when bad was better than my mammut infinity. Wear seems pretty standard for the diameter. [full disclosure: LOOK AT ME]

 

[Will Hunt]

Posted a little while ago asking about trad half ropes and feel like I might be nearly, almost, just about ready to actually part with some money. My opinions have developed a little since the last post.

I can't think of any situation I have even been in where having 60m half ropes was actually necessary. Certainly in the UK (and even on the continent I think), abseils or pitches of more than 50m are incredibly rare. Furthermore, the weight saving of dropping from 60 to 50m is huge, and 50m ropes are so much easier to manage on stances and keep out of tangles. Unless someone comes up with an anecdote or reason to get 60s then 50s is the way forward.

I also have much better things to spend money on than two pairs of ropes for different situations, so I really need a pair of ropes that does the lot. Some manufacturer's are turning out 8.3mm half ropes at the moment but there does seem to be some loss in performance and not a great deal of difference in weight. I think I'd have to drop to 8mm to see any significant weight loss. Thinking particularly about ropes running over edges, getting thinner ropes seems to be asking for trouble and 8mm ropes are going to last about two seconds on grit.

So it seems that 8.5mm, 50m ropes are the way to go. I have only ever had Mammut ropes. Having scanned through this thread they seem to get reasonably consistent reviews as being decent. I wonder if I could go one better and get something that handles really nicely/lasts longer. Is there any other brand I should be looking at? Edelrid? Sterling? I notice Alpkit are stocking ropes made by someone called Roca now? Any good?

[Paul B]

You should look at the Sterling Duetto (IMO).

If you're not fussy about colour you can buy the 120m that switches from colour to colour/striped at half way and cut it. This is a very affordable solution.

I'd go 60m (personally), there have been loads of times that this has been of benefit (linking pitches / Veron abs / Val di Mello abs etc. etc.). You have to be careful which Mammut's you go for and my Edelrid (Falcon?) is a PITA for coiling and looping around anything going.

[Will Hunt]

Hmmm. Not quite convinced on the length issue. Thanks for your view though. I think from reading your posts you get considerably more time to go away tradding (and with bigger objectives) on the continent than me! I'm likely to do it relatively infrequently now in all honesty.

The Sterling Duetto seems to be much more geared towards fast and light alpinism. The tech spec available on the website is a bit sparse on detail but it seems to significantly underperform against the Genesis on durability - considerably fewer UIAA falls. It would be nice to save another 300g over two ropes but I'm not sure if I can afford to reduce durability so significantly.

[slackline]

I can't think of any situation I have even been in where having 60m half ropes was actually necessary. Certainly in the UK (and even on the continent I think), abseils or pitches of more than 50m are incredibly rare. Furthermore, the weight saving of dropping from 60 to 50m is huge, and 50m ropes are so much easier to manage on stances and keep out of tangles. Unless someone comes up with an anecdote or reason to get 60s then 50s is the way forward.

Not an attempt to persuade you otherwise, but having done it recently, and you asking for anecdotes....the last abseil to get off of The Old Man of Hoy needs 60m ropes, if you've only got 50m you'll be stuck hanging about 4-5m from the rock face with the knots in the end of your rope about 7-8m from the ground.  The other option is to take a third rope, attach it to the anchor of the first belay and trail it up the second pitch and use it to descend, although the last person down might have an "interesting" time when they remove it from the second belay.

Further afield in the Dolomites I have on occasions strung two pitches and two abseils together on 60m.  The abseils wouldn't have been possible on 50m ropes but wasn't essential for a safe decent, although the time saving of linking pitches whilst climbing and on descent is worthwhile.

I also have much better things to spend money on than two pairs of ropes for different situations, so I really need a pair of ropes that does the lot.

Are you the sole gear provider?  I ask because I only have one 60m half-rope, invariably I'm climbing with a friend who has another one with which it can be paired, this would significantly reduce your cost.

[nai]

60 metres all the way, that bit extra makes life so much easier and/or safer on occasion, linking pitches, abbing, reaching belays.  It can save a lot of time and faff, the extra cost will soon be forgotten and you can probably find a deal if you look around anyway.

[Will Hunt]

I'm interested to see so many people backing 60m as being essential. Point taken about the Old Man of Hoy. It is a route on the list, but I suppose I can mothball my current 60s and bring them out (or more likely borrow a partners 60s!) if needed. I'm sure they've got an extra route or two left in them as they're not that shagged out!

60 metres all the way, that bit extra makes life so much easier and/or safer on occasion, linking pitches, abbing, reaching belays.  It can save a lot of time and faff, the extra cost will soon be forgotten and you can probably find a deal if you look around anyway.

It's not really the extra cost I'm concerned about. The main advantages of 50s as I see it are the considerable weight saving you get without sacrificing robustness, the reduced tangling, increased ease of rope management, reduced time coiling ropes/taking in slack etc.

I appreciate that running the odd pitch together can be advantageous, however I can't think that there are really all that many situations in the UK where you would run pitches together and the length of your ropes would become the limiting factor before rope drag did! I ran a couple of pitches together yesterday - 24m and 20m on 50s and all was well but the drag was chronic at the top (yes I did extend the outlying runners properly!). It might be useful once in every 50 mountain routes you do? Meanwhile you're making minor savings every time you bring up extra slack and avoid a slight tangle, and perhaps you'll walk in a bit faster because you're carrying less gear on the walk in?

Abseils. With the obvious exception of the Old Man, are there really that many UK abs where you must have 60s? Perhaps there's the odd sea cliff where a long rope is needed, but in those circumstances I'd probably have brought my sport rope along to act as a dedicated ab rope to keep the climbing ropes out of the drink. I hear it's standard practice to abseil off The Bullroar after doing the traverse pitches. Anybody know whether you get down on 50s?

[Adam Lincoln]

Be mad to get 50's in this day and age. For the extra weight its not worth worrying about. Plus if you damage the ends you can still cut 10m off and still have a 50m. Win win.

[galpinos]

Will, I’ll go against the tide and agree with you and say for UK trad, 50s would be my choice.

I’ve 2 60m dry treated halves that have been used for alpine and Scottish winter as well as rock. As I do less of the former and more just UK trad I see little need for the extra 10m, its extra weight, extra faff and a waste of money. UK trad pitches are rarely that long, I never really abseil (separate rope for sea cliffs) so most of the advantages are theoretical. However, the ends of my ropes are tatty (my footwork in crampons is not the best) so I’m considering giving them a trim so I’ll have a nice pair of 50s for UK trading, so I guess that’s an advantage.  I’d probably be happy with a pair of 40s for UK trad.

In an ideal world I’ve have 2 50m 8.5s for UK trad and 2 60m 8.1s for Alpine, and Scottish winter. In this ideal world, I’d get a lot more use out of the 8.1s than in reality, which would mean them sat in the loft, getting an airing every other year……

[dr_botnik]

I'd always go with 60 m now. Ever since I've started running pitches together it's just phenomenal. Especially at places like tremadog. That crag is 60 m high and is just fantastic in a oner.

[Johnny Brown]

My first season with 60s I kept having to belay mid-pitch as I tried to run everything together.

In an ideal world I’ve have 2 50m 8.5s for UK trad and 2 60m 8.1s for Alpine, and Scottish winter.

This is basically what I've had for the last 8 years. Beal Cobra (which I've been using since '95) and Beal Icelines. What I've found is I just end up using the Icelines for everything bar grit, for which I now have a pair of cut down Cobras about 37m long. Also use the Mammut equivalent (supposedly 7.8 vs Iceline 8.1 - no difference in use) which are fine but a bit stiffer, meaning they kink/ tangle more)

If you've not used 8mms before I'd suggest buying a new belay device, may older ones are not suitable. I use Reversinos but you'll have to shop for something more modern. I also found all the modern lightweight biners work great with 8mms, less so with anything bigger. Slim the whole rack down with 6-8mm dyneema slings and tiny krabs and it makes a big difference.

[petejh]

 
Trad rack (and clothing) are potentially large weight savers.

My preference is 50s. I bought 50s specifically for winter mixed because every bit of weight saved is appreciated approaching/descending, and faffing on belays. 99.5% of the time mixed pitches don't require 60s.
Continental/alpine ice - 60s or 70s 8mm
UK trad - 50s, Sea-cliffs - 50s, plus a seperate low-stretch ab rope in some places
Sport - 60 or 70 (70 nice to have so you can keep on chopping ends for a few years). If you're feeling flush then a fat working rope and a super-skinny for onsighting and long enduro routes.

[abarro81]

I'd never buy a sport rope less than 80, ideally longer so you can cut and still have an 80... But then I like long routes and Europe.

[Paul B]

If you're feeling flush then a fat working rope and a super-skinny for onsighting and long enduro routes.

I think I said earlier in the thread, I had an 80m Edelrid Python fat thing for working and a much lighter Sterling ION 2 for onsighting. In reality we ended up with two ropes at the crag one being used by each person and the ION 2 required cutting far far less than than the Python.

[cheque]

I'm in the market for a single rope which will be used for UK sport over the summer then my US trip in September.

It's going to see some hammer but I'll be happy to leave it in the states at the end of my trip so I'm looking for something that will perform very well for less than a year rather than something that will last for ages. I don't want a skinny one (I whip and dog a lot, have an old-style GriGri and I'll be climbing with some less than expert belayers as well as a very tired one during it's life) and it doesn't need to be long as neither Peak, Arkansan or the Yorkshire routes I'm capable of are very high.

I'm therefore thinking 9.8ish in 60m so I can give it a reviving chop down to 50 before I travel.

Contenders are-

Sterling Velocity 9.8 -  I've used other people's before and they were good. No idea if the newer version ("Evolution Velocity") is better or worse though.

Beal Diablo 9.8- I like the way Beals handle and this seems to have an appealing bonded sheath construction.

Beal Booster III 9.7- again I like Beals and this is slightly lighter and is available with a nice hardwearing coating.

Petzl Contact 9.8- never used one but I trust the brand- this also has appealing-sounding coating and construction business.

The Sterling is the favourite judging from this thread but does anyone have experience of the latter three (or other suggestions)? The Mammuts that get a good write-up on here don't seem to be made any more.

Cheers!

[Paul B]

Personally I'd snap up one of the bargain ION 2s from CragX, it's 9.4mm so pretty 'slick' at first in a GriGri but as I've said elsewhere in this thread (actually I'm becoming a bit of a stuck record), Nat and I used it extensively then took it for 6 months around the USA and Canada and the only reason it didn't come back was weight / cost.

It's currently still in use with a friend (although he inherited my luck on his first outing, breaking his ankle in a solo-fall).

Failing the above go for the Velocity or the Booster III (I liked the one I owned). I'm wary of other Beals as I thought my Joker was shockingly poor.