[douglas]

Technique is easy, strength is harder to come by.

Typically it's been my experience that people who say that don't understand the difference between technique and skill in climbing and just how much of an impact it makes on performance compared to strength which takes far less time to acquire.

Sounds like you're right. What is the difference between technique and skill? Technique can be learnt but skill cannot?

[Serpico]

Sounds like you're right. What is the difference between technique and skill?

Technique implies that you know how to do a drop knee, or a heel hook, or how to place your foot on a hold. Skill is about knowing when those techniques are appropriate, but even more about body positioning, movement initiation, movement efficiency, and a whole host of other subtle factors.
As an example: I've had a symmetrical training board for years, for every hold there's an identical hold in the same relative position on the opposite side of the board, so for every problem I make up there's an exact mirror image version. I had a revelation on the board a few years ago - I couldn't hold a small crimp with my right hand, nothing unusual about that, most people's explanation would be that they weren't strong enough, but I had already done the the exact same move using the same [relative] holds using my weaker left hand. I had to go back to the left hand version to figure out what the difference was - which was shifting my hips just 2" to the right. As soon as I did that I did the move.
In the years since I've consistently found that I have better body awareness when moving off my left hand than off my [stronger] right; moves, foot choice and body positioning that are intuitive when moving off my left hand are often substituted by brute force (or failure) when moving off the exact same holds with my right hand. Obviously most people don't have access to that sort of L-R comparison, but it seems that it's not enough to just learn a 'technique' or skill you have to learn it and perfect it in every situation.

Technique can be learnt but skill cannot?

Both can be learnt but skill takes longer. It's reckoned that reach expert level in a field (sport, playing an instrument, etc...) takes around 10,000 hours of practice. If you consider the amount of time spent actually on the rock whilst out or at the wall (which may only add up to ~20mins or less), how close to that 10k hrs are you?

[SA Chris]

I think technique is learing how to do something. Skill is learning to be able to do that thing well.

[douglas]

how close to that 10k hrs are you?

Not close at all! Less than 5 % I would guess. I concede that perhaps technique / skill is not easy, but strength isn't either. Not for me anyway. Really interesting about the one sided movement thing, I always wear through my right toe first...

[shark]

Really interesting about the one sided movement thing, I always wear through my right toe first...

It's more likely that your right foot is bigger

[SA Chris]

Or that you have one foot taking your weight /  kicking off when lowering off at the wall /crag. I noticed I do that and think it must add a lot of wear and tear to that shoe.

[TobyD]

Really interesting about the one sided movement thing, I always wear through my right toe first...

It's more likely that your right foot is bigger

although i believe most people's bigger foot is their left?  anyway  apologies.

I'm with Serpico on this one (i think) ... climbing is more of a skill / movement based activity than one of strength IMHO, except in a few situations. Dawes once made an astute comment about the endless training of power being like putting an F1 engine in a mini, it'd just skid and wouldn't corner .... it's the skillful application of the power that you have which really reaps rewards. Though obviously if you have wad loads of both, you're in. Or rather, if you have wad loads of both, you're Adam Ondra.

[heelhookofglory]

Totally agree that both are important.

Since I started climbing I've always championed technique / skill (what ever you want to call it) and focused pretty much exclusively on that -- at least with regards to actual intention. I've only recently started focusing on strength training and it is already paying off. Some holds which I simply couldn't hold before are getting much more within my grasp. Yes, body positioning is very important but there is a point where your fingers are either strong enough or aren't strong enough to hold a certain hold, no matter what position your body is in.

That's what I think at the moment, anyway, but then I'm still learning...

[ghisino]

Dawes once made an astute comment about the endless training of power being like putting an F1 engine in a mini, it'd just skid and wouldn't corner .... it's the skillful application of the power that you have which really reaps rewards.

I've been thinking the same for years but some experiences slightly changed my mind.

the most shocking came when i started training the front lever, not really expecting any performance gain out of it (it was more of an injury rehab story, but thats another story)

Well, before the front lever i was pretty shit at some angles. I would climb well on vertical-ish stuff, get away with "creativity" on roofs, and suck at 45° and around. A truly huge performance gap, indoors and outside too.

What i noticed as i progressed towards the lever was how my footwork on 45° stuff was improving faster than my imagination. I was doing things that i simply didn't consider as possible before, and it was "technical" stuff, all about "pulling" with my feet and being "precise"!!!

What i mean with this small story it that at least on some angles there is a minimum requirement of strenght below which you won't really "skillfully apply" anything.

It is true that a F1 engine in a mini is not a game changer, but it is also true that putting motoGP tyres on a bicycle won't get you anywhere.

[Oldmanmatt]

?????
Sorry, I mean,
?????!!
I seem to get a good balance to my wall/campus/finger board training, by finishing off each session with:-

30x Press ups (Normal, flat palmed, shoulder width spacing)
60x crunches
60x leg raises (prone)
60x cross over crunches
60x reverse leg raises (on all fours, 60 on each leg)
60x "Dog legs" (on all fours, knee bent, cock leg, 60 on each leg)

Nary a weight to be seen...

Takes about 10 min and seems to address all those opposing muscles that the wall neglects...

Still get laughed at by the other denizens of the wall.

They don't do these things in Devon...

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, if I think about it; 30 years of climbing bring me to the following conclusion:-

Strength without skill= pointless
Skill without strength= limited performance
Skill comes with training, practice, observation, visualisation and dedication. It is hard won.
Strength comes with training, practice......... all the same things really. It too is hard won.

Different people will be naturally inclined to be "good" at some aspects of both skill and strength and "weak" in others and so a training regime will be a very personal thing; developed by trial and error over time (if you do it yourself).
I'm pretty strong, but I'm often outclassed by other climbers who seem to move their body in ways that just didn't occur to me...