[GCW]

Just to try to collate information, and maybe assess the extent of this as a wider issue.
Please add any other you know about.

Denham Quarry- various tool damage around the Concave Wall area.  2010, twice.
Stronstrey Bank Quarry- Crampon damage, Roadworks area, appeared since late 2010.
Millstone- Dry tooling witnessed December 2010, Embankment/Monopoly.
Burbage North- Wednesday Climb area, likely 2011.

[slackline]

Horseshoe Quarry
Castle Inn Quarry Have pictures taken on early March 2011, locals also climbing there said the scratches had been there for a year or so already (still looked fresh, so goes to show the damage caused doesn't disappear over-night/year).

Also some dicks scratching graffiti into the rocks of Back Tor over winter.

[SA Chris]

Back Bowden - on the descent gully to the right of the main crag there are definite crampon scratches from someone climbing / trying to climb up it. Last seen April before last. Not on any climbs, but stupid nonetheless and potential thin end of the wedge.

[slackline]

Back Bowden - on the descent gully to the right of the main crag there are definite crampon scratches from someone climbing / trying to climb up it. Last seen April before last. Not on any climbs, but stupid nonetheless and potential thin end of the wedge.

Best stick the North Ridge of Tryfan in then, there are tons of scratches all the way up that (even though its not a climb). 

[Fultonius]

Last weekend I forgot my lube....the damage is only just healing now. 

[ooops, wrong thread  ]

Joking aside - good idea!  Maybe there could be a wiki page with photos highlighting the various areas where it's been going on?

[slackline]

Maybe there could be a wiki page with photos highlighting the various areas where it's been going on?

Make it so!

[SA Chris]

Best stick the North Ridge of Tryfan in then, there are tons of scratches all the way up that (even though its not a climb). 

Is this pedantic crap a useful addition to this thread?

[Fultonius]

I would (I don't expect others to do all the work) but I don't have any photos and I don't know any of the locations where it's happened!

[GCW]

Made so.

[slackline]

Best stick the North Ridge of Tryfan in then, there are tons of scratches all the way up that (even though its not a climb). 

Is this pedantic crap a useful addition to this thread?

Maybe, I thought the damage and scratches on the rock when I went up there last year was horrendous, not strictly "dry tooling", but depressing to see.

[Probes]

Anglezarke Quarry December 2010 - Beginners wall area. Evidence of toproping, general scratch marks on routes and climb back down into quarry

Kilnsey Apr/may 2010 - Furthest route on left F5+ dont know name, where everyone goes for a leak. Scratches noticed all way up route, obvioulsy a couple of months old.

[stevej]

Clocked some crampon scratches on jackdaw ridge (Shepherds, Borrowdale) last summer. Can't have been more than a few ascents worth but since it's really not a sensible winter line/venue by any stretch of the imagination

Actually, I reckon it's important that a distinction is made between damage caused by the can of worms that is 'mixed' and wanton dry tooling (which, bar Tryfan, the rest of those examples are)

[slackline]

If a site admin could modify the Wiki such that upload directory (public) is writeable then I shall upload and embed pics taken in Castle Quarry (currently its not and an Internal error is returned that reads "The upload directory (public) is not writable by the webserver.").

[Bubba]

Sorry, something I always forget to set back when dong site-wide chmods. Should be writeable now.

In fact, the whole wiki needs an upgrade. If it actually starts getting used then I'll go for it.

[slackline]

Nice one Bubba, cheers, pics uploaded.

[chalkyjim]

Chevin too.

[petejh]

Castle Inn Quarry Have pictures taken on early March 2011, locals also climbing there said the scratches had been there for a year or so already (still looked fresh, so goes to show the damage caused doesn't disappear over-night/year).

Castle Inn, North Wales?

[slackline]

Castle Inn Quarry Have pictures taken on early March 2011, locals also climbing there said the scratches had been there for a year or so already (still looked fresh, so goes to show the damage caused doesn't disappear over-night/year).

Castle Inn, North Wales?

Yes, on the wall with Indian Summer on, think the scratching is on the VS 4c to the right, Mynydd Marian (pics in Wiki taken when being lowered down from the top of Indian Summer).

[chris05]

Apparently also happening at Kingussie crag (from the other channel):

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=451938

Really worrying trend.   

[SA Chris]

hear mention of it at Poll Dubh Crags as well. Not sure which routes though.

[fatboySlimfast]

Some definitely around top of the Cioch at Burbage South and some on the gully round the side, would have to have another look to give definite location but walked over it last night on way back to car.

[crimp]

Just found this on tinterweb. First time I've become aware of it round yer.

Anybody know if there is any dry tooling damage at Brean? Or other instances in region? There's enough loose rock about without people levering it loose.

[petejh]

 

I'm not familiar with Brean, is he on the sport climbing crag?

Terrible music too, god sometimes I feel embarrassed to be into dry-tooling.

[crimp]

Not sure whereabouts on crag he is. Or if it was a one off visit to practice the dark arts. There's a good mix of sport, trad, and bouldering.

Wondered if anyone has clocked any tooling damage to routes

[GazM]

I think that's in the little bay inland of the sport area.  There's some OK bouldering there (i.e. quite good for that part of the world).  Not cool.

[duncan]

I know this little bit of cliff very well as it was part of my Brean bouldering circuit in the 1980s. It's the next bay inland from the sport section ie right of Great Corner and Bones Chimney. There are a number of pleasant up problems and some entertaining traversing. Just out of shot left there is a good and hard-ish (Fr8a) traverse of Martin Crocker's. 

The rock is typical tidal zone Brean, solid but brittle.  It has some of the better bouldering in the area. IT IS ENTIRELY INAPPROPRIATE FOR DRYTOOLING!

Apparently the person who posted the video, Dave Talbot, is an instructor of some sort. It looks like it is easy to contact him via his website.  I have done.

[crimp]

Proper job Duncan.

Let us know what he says.

I ain't being a killjoy, but i can't think of any regional crags where dry tooling is appropriate? (Except tintern quarry of course! Only joking, i know some people love it's post apocalypse atmosphere)

[duncan]

Dave responded promptly and was very reasonable in response to my request not to dry tool here.  I limited myself to commenting on this single area as it is well known to me. 

I didn't add the obvious question as to why on earth anyone should think that dry tooling anywhere at a long established trad. and sport (and bouldering) crag was acceptable. Perhaps I should have done. Where is the line drawn?   

[crimp]

I don't know where the line is drawn either.

I am going to contact BMC area rep, and see what debate there has been at regional and national level. Personally, i think it needs an agreed area ethic, like the drilled gear policies.

[Jaspersharpe]

I can understand this being done on stuff that can't be climbed properly. Chalk and other such choss is clearly fair game but surely anything else should be left alone. Call it "Dry Tooling" if you like but it's hacking at the rock with a fucking axe for fuck's sake.

[crimp]

A quick search throws up minutes of a 2010 BMC SW area meet, where it was carried unanimously that dry tooling is not acceptable on any cliff with established climbs in the south west.

I think that probably sums up majority opinion as well.

I shall contact BMC area rep, asking for the policy to be stated in all future guidebooks for the region and promoted at local walls.

[SA Chris]

I can understand this being done on stuff that can't be climbed properly. Chalk and other such choss is clearly fair game but surely anything else should be left alone. Call it "Dry Tooling" if you like but it's hacking at the rock with a fucking axe for fuck's sake.

+1. As far as I know the only established DT venues are permawet holes in the ground or too loose for conventional climbing of any sort.

Or Dave Macleod new routes

[crimp]

a) This meeting opposes the use of any documented rock-climbing crags in the Wye Valley, Forest of Dean, or Cotswolds for dry-tooling. b) Amendment to the above resolution to extend it to cover the whole of the SW


the above is the exact wording of 2010 BMC south west area meeting. The resolution and amendment to extend it to cover whole sw was carried unanimously.

The resolution was put to the the meeting because there was a debate on the other channel about whether to make cleeve hill a dry tooling venue. Thankfully the BMC area declaration stopped It.

might be worth checking your own areas to see what the BMC stance is. It's ammo against fools with tools in discussion or at the crag.

[slackline]

a) This meeting opposes the use of any documented Wye Valley, Forest of Dean, or Cotswolds cliff for dry-tooling. b) resolution to extend it to cover the whole of the SW

the above is the exact wording of 2010 BMC south west area meeting. The resolution and amendment to extend it to cover whole sw was carried unanimously.

The resolution was put to the the meeting because there was a debate on the other channel about whether to make cleeve hill a dry tooling venue. Thankfully the BMC area declaration stopped It.

might be worth checking your own areas to see what the BMC stance is. It's ammo against fools with tools in discussion or at the crag.

No idea if Dave Talbot reads these forums, might be worth letting him know.

[crimp]

Duncan already has a polite friendly line of communication with him. Perhaps he might consider informing him of the BMC south west area resolution.

He should be made aware of it. Duncan says earlier he's an instructor.

[duncan]

I didn't add the obvious question as to why on earth anyone should think that dry tooling anywhere at a long established trad. and sport (and bouldering) crag was acceptable.

I emailed Dave again pointing out the BMC area motion and asked the obvious question.

I've also mentioned this to a mutual friend who says he'll have a quiet word.

I want to keep open lines of communication with someone who I would judge to be uninformed and a bit overenthusiastic but make it clear that this is completely unacceptable behavior.

[Moo]

I believe he's also an infamous space criminal

[SA Chris]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=70228

Fuckwits

[petejh]

A little knowledge (on the part of the culprits) is dangerous.