[Andy F]

I'm not saying I think Comedy is 7b+

Others are though.

 The only routes I can think of that really didn't 'sit' right would be metal guru and Tragedy (the latter of which has had a grade change?)

Metal Guru should be in at 7b+, Tragedy at 7c+

[Marky]

I'll throw my hat in the ring for what it's worth:

Le Lapin - deffo 8a
Private Practice - very soft for 8a+ maybe only 8a
Soft Option - 8a+ IMO compared to other 8a's
Main Overhang - deffo 8a since I pulled the pencil hold off!
New Age - 7c+. If this is 8a then so is Renaissance
Zoolook - benchmark 8a and always will be
GBH - I thought harder than zoolook so 8a+ but agreed not a hard one

Off topic but did Defcon 3 at Gordale last year and felt like 8a due to hold loss

[mrjonathanr]

Comedy, Frankie and 50 for 5 are correctly graded. In fact they're so obviously correctly graded, can't see the point in debating them.

[ianv]

So what is the consensus for the Oak and Magnetic? I think I saw somewhere that someone was suggesting 8b for the Oak and 8a+ for Magnetic Magnetic is way harder.

Cant remember lots of stuff but Zoolook  solid 8a, Baboo seemed like a similar grade to Zoolook, Comedy deffo 7c, Ashes easy7c+??, Connect 4 8a if you miss out the first bolt.

[Adam Lincoln]

So what is the consensus for the Oak and Magnetic?

8b for both.

[Ru]

So what is the consensus for the Oak and Magnetic?

8b for both.

What about Mid Ledge (the proper way)? Personally I think Mid ledge, the Oak, and Magnetic are all about the same 8a+/8b grade.

[ianv]

the Oak is a lot easier than Magnetic IMO. I used to be able to run laps on the oak but I never managed to red point magnetic. I would have said 8a+ oak, 8b Magnetic (unless there is some magic new sequence that makes the hard move easier)

[saltbeef]

Comedy, Frankie and 50 for 5 are correctly graded. In fact they're so obviously correctly graded, can't see the point in debating them.

this seems pretty much the theme of this thread. it all seems pretty reminiscent of the downgrade the peak for cash thread. i would imagine that adam was really after sensible comments about things that are new or are obvious anomalies/have changed and gotten easier/harder, instead he's had a fair bit  of willy waving about the 30 most popular routes. (or was he!  )

[Serpico]

I think the route grade voting system on other channel is useful in this debate and to gives a fairly democratic view.
(Now then, I have noted down the number of votes for contentious routes and will be watching for any signs of obvious rigging)

Hmmm, any routes that you are thinking of in the above situation? Maybe one that has had its grade altered by a certain ex-teacher getting his class to downgrade a route for their homework... 

 
It's a good story, but there isn't actually any truth in it. GA was downgraded because it got significantly easier when a block came out. Standard 8a+.

[Andy F]

Who say's a good story has to have any truth in it? I thought you thought it was 8a...

[Serpico]

Who say's a good story has to have any truth in it? I thought you thought it was 8a...

I thought it was, but it fits me - particularly the knee bar which is a hands-off rest. Unfortunately guidebook authors continue to refuse to regrade for me, so GA remains 8a+ not 8a and Midledge 8a+ and not 8b.
I've learned to live with it.

[The Aaronator]

...(unless there is some magic new sequence that makes the hard move easier)

There is actually, if your legs are bendy enough.

[Serpico]

...(unless there is some magic new sequence that makes the hard move easier)

There is actually, if your legs are bendy enough.

You have to be so ridiculously flexible to do it that way that you might as well say 'there's an easier sequence if you're strong enough'.
There is another sequence where people traverse left and don't use the crux pinch for the left hand.

[Andy F]

Who say's a good story has to have any truth in it? I thought you thought it was 8a...

Midledge 8a+ and not 8b.

Serps in upgrade shocker   

[The Aaronator]

...(unless there is some magic new sequence that makes the hard move easier)

There is actually, if your legs are bendy enough.

You have to be so ridiculously flexible to do it that way that you might as well say 'there's an easier sequence if you're strong enough'.
There is another sequence where people traverse left and don't use the crux pinch for the left hand.

It's hardly a traverse. No worse than an 'only fits one knee bar ' on GA.

[Serpico]

At least the knee bar's on-route.

[shark]

Is the crux of Baboo really Font 7A? (certainly never 7A+)

No, but the start of New Dawn / Baboo is?

Maybe if you are short.

For average height, neither are harder than Font 6c.

 

[Andy F]

At least the knee bar's on-route for the weak  .

[The Aaronator]

At least the knee bar's on-route.

And so is the drop knee on Magnetic. You end up with your right hand in the pocket pinch. How is that off route? What about the crux work arounds on Baboo and GBH? does longer routes mean you have more left/right leeway than a short route. If you can reach it, then it's in and the route grade should reflect that if it's easier.

I still think that a one man one vote system is the most democratic way of deciding on contentious grades. It means we can forego the myriad of opinions that comes from the very personal battles that people have with the rock, whatever the grade. (phew)

[fatdoc]

Baboo should've been left as 7c+. I don't think Soft Option is blatantly over graded - I've only met one person who thought it was 7c+, it's pretty fair at middle of the grade 8a.
GBH is bottom of the grade 8a+, but now it seems that people have started traversing into Baboo to miss out the first hard moves, so should it be downgraded?

Baboo has a Font7A+ crux section 50 feet off the deck that is significantly harder than anything on Zoolook. It is 8a.

You are exagerrating by characterising the line everyone takes on GBH as "traversing into Baboo" when all that is shared is one hold which on GBH is used as a gaston and on Baboo as a sidehold. Has anyone even repeated Mitchell's direct way of doing GBH which was given 8b in any case. As for the grade yes GBH may be a hard 8a or easy 8a+ but for me it is far harder than Zoolook though it may suit the modern climber better which is where the disagreements stem from.

If Zoolook is given 8a+ it will be a national embarrasment.

i think i did it Tony's way...

fuck hard 8a.

 i loved it, me.

[Doylo]

I think its a shame that there is a way round the classic pocket pull on magnetic but if its still .8b its irelevant to this debate

[Serpico]

And so is the drop knee on Magnetic. You end up with your right hand in the pocket pinch. How is that off route?

I wasn't referring to the drop knee, there's another sequence where people traverse left so that they're using that pocket as a side pull with the right hand, there might even be a way where they miss it out completely - I'm less sure of my facts on that one.

[nik at work]

there might even be a way where they miss it out completely - I'm less sure of my facts on that one.

We can't have that Serps, this is the internet - definitive FACT only don'cha know?

[Ru]

And so is the drop knee on Magnetic. You end up with your right hand in the pocket pinch. How is that off route?

I wasn't referring to the drop knee, there's another sequence where people traverse left so that they're using that pocket as a side pull with the right hand, there might even be a way where they miss it out completely - I'm less sure of my facts on that one.

You end up with the pinch as a right hand sidepull on the drop knee sequence - you sure that's not what you'tre thinking of Serp? You don't traverse left though, just reach an edge to the left of the pinch instead of the pinch.

[north_country_boy]

Is the crux of Baboo really Font 7A? (certainly never 7A+)

No, but the start of New Dawn / Baboo is?

Maybe if you are short.

For average height, neither are harder than Font 6c.

 

So the crux of Baboo is only half a grade easier (or the same if you the originally muted 7A+) as the start of Austrian. Mmmm. Thought not.