[Björn]

www.8a.nu

[Bubba]

Thanks Björn

"One of the big problems can be the steel brush some people use to clean even when they try something that has already been climbed. Some must have used more than just a brush... "

Much more than a brush - it's granite, so it doesn't sound like an "overbrushing" like we get so often on grit.

Once again the disgrace that is chipping raises it's ugly head. What is the point? I've tried to put myself into the minds of people who do this, but surely nobody is stupid enough to think they've done a problem properly if they've downgraded it with a brush or chisel?

[dave]

didn't malc say it deffinetley hadn't been chipped though?

we mustn't forget that holds can improve through "organic" means, like crystela crumbling off, holds snapping etc.

[Jim]

Was talkin about this t'other day, why do people feel the need to wire brush clean holds?
Perhaps they feel that improving them adds to the quality of the problem. Could be indoor climbers who don't know any better- I think climbing walls should play a bigger part in educating their customers that wire brushing clean holds and chipping is not acceptable
And there is also the type of person who knows exactly what they're doing to the rock and should have they're fingers broken with a large hammer IMO

[Bubba]

didn't malc say it deffinetley hadn't been chipped though?

The article states that they had consulted him. Who knows - maybe he can put the record straight next time he visits the forum?

[dave]

one of the problems is that everyone who uses a wiebrush belives they are doing so carefully. No-one actually belives they are doing damage, but quite clearly some are.

[Huffy]

Its a bit of a weird one this.
If you think about it a place as publicised as Cresciano will be getting nuff traffic, as much as any other bouldering venue at the moment so is it not concievable that new holds will be found if enough keen eyes get to look at the problem?
I dunno, from climbing in Switzerland it seems that many of the classic hard lines are no longer as hard cos new sequences have been found. We found and cleaned a new hold on an 8a which made it 7b+...we didn't chip or use wire brushes, jus used an old faithful oral b plaque remover!

What do you think :?:

Huffy

[Bubba]

Unearthing new holds is cool, even if it changes the problem completely, as is general wear due to the passage of boulderers.

Doubtless, some holds do improve through repeated use, but it's hard to see how holds change greatly over a short timescale at a venue with a very hard type of rock.

But then, I've never even been there, so may be talking from my sunshine-hole   :D

[Pantontino]

I specifically asked Malc last week about the rumours of chipped holds on Dreamtime and he was certain it was no different from when he first went on it. He mentioned a new hold near the start that had been brushed, but he said he didn't use it and he reckoned it didn't make the problem any easier.

On a general note I do think we should sack wire brushes off (certainly for existing problems) and try CJD's soon-to-be-patented cotton scrubbing method.

[dave]

mebby CJD can sell the idea to prana/metolius, then they can import a load of cotton rags, sew a logo on and sell them for £40 a throw.

What am I saying, hell, I'll take that business venture!
dollar dollar bill y'all!

[Bubba]

I specifically asked Malc last week about the rumours of chipped holds on Dreamtime and he was certain it was no different from when he first went on it. He mentioned a new hold near the start that had been brushed, but he said he didn't use it and he reckoned it didn't make the problem any easier.

The usual crossed wires then  :roll:

[Adam Lincoln]

I specifically asked Malc last week about the rumours of chipped holds on Dreamtime and he was certain it was no different from when he first went on it. He mentioned a new hold near the start that had been brushed, but he said he didn't use it and he reckoned it didn't make the problem any easier.

The usual crossed wires then  :roll:

Cant 8a.nu get owt right?! Did they report Malc saying it was definately chipped first?

[dave]

here we go - the mentalists are on the case now i expect:
 :roll:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=74204

[Björn]

As far as I know Malc said that there was a new hold at the start,but that it didn't really matter as almost no one used it anyway. According to Malc nothing else has changed since he tried the problem the first time.
On the other hand, Toni Lamrpecht says that there's at least one move that he couldn't do at all before, which he now, due to the improved holds, can do in his sneakers...

[dave]

and theres alsolutley no chance that he's just got stronger, or its better conditions or anything like that? i think its very difficult to rule things like that out.

[Björn]

Well, he does say the holds are "very much better". He's also taken pictures of the new and improved holds and will try to compare them to what they look like in old pictures.
You can read Malc's comment in 8a.nu's old forum.

[ian h]

would have thought that if 1 hold has been brushed/improved then others may also have been.

makes me wonder though the sort of climbers trying that problem really ought to know better. it is a world apart from some newbie fucking up a few easy problems somewhere.

[ian h]

aaarrrghhhh some hideous minger has invaded my avatar

[Bonjoy]

aaarrrghhhh some hideous minger has invaded my avatar

 I was wondering why you chose a huge munter, figured it must be some weird southern fetish shit.

[dave]

ian you need to get that female picture (chloe jones?) back, or a suitable replacment.

[ian h]

cool thank fuck thats gone

[Avoiding the Traitor]

What was the picture? I missed it !!

[Omega]

maybe dreamtime just isn't 8c?  

naturally when a hard problem sees a lot of repeats its grade is questioned.  which might leave the first ascentionist thinking: hmmm, wonder if they chipped some holds cos i sure found it pretty darn hard.

[curly ben]

:cry:  :?:  Im very confused? Is Monsieur Smith being blamed for the so called chipping of dreamtime? are other british boulderers involved. surly such high profile climbers eg video magazine shots wouldn,t put their reputations on the line. Are euro dudues unhappy cause everyone climbs and downgrades their problems?  Why did Smith downgrade it? seems like causing more fuss by saying oh your problem was not that hard, when it obviously was pretty difficult. At the top level how about people dont question others grades but invite them to climb their own problems eg Fred Nicole on a "monks life". Is it all about being the best?

[dave]

:cry:  :?:  Im very confused? Is Monsieur Smith being blamed for the so called chipping of dreamtime?

nothing i've read has suggested that.

At the top level how about people dont question others grades but invite them to climb their own problems.

thats just a stupid idea. grades need to be questioned all the time, thats how the whole thing works. if no one at the top-end questioned grades then we'd be looking at huge grade inflation, E57, font 11b etc.

[a dense loner]

hasn't E57 17a/b bin done at froggatt??
agree wi dave, most stupid thing i've ever heard. would work well in perfect world, but so would communism.
it's not just at top level would say it's worse lower down. just not as interesting to slag someone off after doin 7c+ n really it's only 7b+. far better to downgrade an 8b to 8a+ then everyone thinks the first ascentionist is a dick who overgrades. when in reality hes only a grade out, n wot happens if the second ascentionist has got 5 inches reach over the other guy, this is soon forgotten n cud have been the difference between success n failure.
sorry, i hate tall people  :twisted:  arrrgh!

[dave]

hasn't E57 17a/b bin done at froggatt??

spied a new "line" for AB on the weekend: do Monks life, then drive to back bowden and do Transendence - for the County's first E12 7c (7b really, 7c to onsight) called "Too Tanned To Be Banned".

[chappers]

 We found and cleaned a new hold on an 8a which made it 7b+...we didn't chip or use wire brushes, jus used an old faithful oral b plaque remover!

What do you think :?:

Huffy

this is off 8a.nu:
we are still wondering why they think they need to find more holds or bigger holds- maybe just to say the have done a certain grade or a famous boulder problem? To say it's easier? They will never know it if they don't try it with the original holds anyway.

totally agree with huffy, surely if all of the holds were not used on the first ascent then the problem is just an eliminate.
peeps will always find new ways to do problems, new sequences that will appear to make problems easier.
hows about mr smith/ dunning dont get so much bad press from some others (not people on this site) to detract from their massive achievements. People were slagging dunning off on planet fear so bad that the thread had to be pulled., kids he teaches were giving him hassle at school. harsh.
well done boys!

[curly ben]

Yep take your point Mr ultra G,
 i guess what i was getting at is that maybe first ascentionists should be given a little respect grading wise. Just watched the video of Malcom on dreamtime-immense stuff he seemed to walk it! soo how does he decide if he was climbing super strong that day and he can climb v15 or its not that grade? I am certainly not trying to be inflammatory towards Mr Smith- i think its quality we have someone climbing loads of hard problems, im just interested how the whole grade game works at that level.
With regards the chipping  i havent read anything either jst numerous forums seem to have it bubbling under the surface with out actually saying it, if that makes any sense? I cant imagine why someone would chip a problem then film themselves climbing it . doesn,t make sense-