[Dexter]

i am not sure about core training.i can do a front lever on the rings in the works and hold it for 10 seconds and i cant climb for shit

true but then that just means core is not your limiting factor (im geussing finger strength probably is) for someone else core may be a limiting factor in some aspects of their climbing

[fried]

Can anyone actually recommend a set of exercises? The amount of information on the web is overwhelming.

Assuming this is for steep bouldering and/or routes not offwidth perversity...

Leg-raises hanging from a bar
L-Hangs

Vary exercises by changing leg positions -e.g. one leg flexed, the other extended, abduct leg (move it out to the side) - nearly all climbing involves asymmetrical movement and it would seem to be sensible to train like this. 

Front-levers with feet on
Inverted rows


Progress by reducing support from the legs - e.g. one toe on rather than both heels in the case of the inverted rows.  This also makes the loading asymmetric.

I'd exercise on a bar rather than rings - unless you climb very loose rock.

All these are fairly specific to climbing, whereas planks and so forth are not.  I think there is a place for non-specific exercises if you have a very, very weak core (not applicable to 99% climbers) and need to start at a very low level or have an existing injury which needs to be handled carefully.  Otherwise I would suggest trying to replicate the kind of climbing you are weak at as closely as possible.

Don't bother with dumbells ( Simon)

Cheers Duncan. I'll investigate, what sort of reps should I be looking at?

[shark]

Shark, what was/is your program for sorting out recurring lower back strains?

I think I fall into the category of people with dodgy core (despite being a climber) as a legacy of bad posture and bad form lifting heavy(ish) weights in my younger years exacerbated by a desk-bound job (stiff upper back, psoas etc). I'm constantly coming away from a session at the wall or a day at the crag with a sore lower back or sides (obliques). Any tips?

Extensive and excellent advice on correcting kyphosis and includes a program at the end. Boom.

[rodma]

Shark, what was/is your program for sorting out recurring lower back strains?

I think I fall into the category of people with dodgy core (despite being a climber) as a legacy of bad posture and bad form lifting heavy(ish) weights in my younger years exacerbated by a desk-bound job (stiff upper back, psoas etc). I'm constantly coming away from a session at the wall or a day at the crag with a sore lower back or sides (obliques). Any tips?

Extensive and excellent advice on correcting kyphosis and includes a program at the end. Boom.

Good find

That is an exceptionally in depth and useful article.

I was going to start a seperate thread about correcting posture etc. since me and mrs rodma are currently doing rehab and have ridiculously tight pecs etc. I especially like the comment about not being able to put their arm around their girlfriend at the cinema.

Excellent lunchtime reading and good additional exercises. 

[Lund]

Sicko.
You (and Tommy for that matter) would do well to remember this famous quote: "If the back of your hand touches the rock, it isn't climbing".
I can't remember which Frenchy said that, but it's words to live by.

Ha ha! Good quote! I might have to reuse that one.

"I climb rock, not the spaces between the rock" (Sonnie Trotter)

[slackline]

"I climb rock, not the spaces between the rock" (Sonnie Trotter)

How'd he get up Cobra Crack then? 

[Lund]

"I climb rock, not the spaces between the rock" (Sonnie Trotter)

How'd he get up Cobra Crack then? 

Dunno.  Maybe he was misquoted.  Maybe he was talking about dynos?

[iain]

Extensive and excellent advice on correcting kyphosis and includes a program at the end. Boom.

Good stuff Shark, thanks

[duncan]

Cheers Duncan. I'll investigate, what sort of reps should I be looking at?

Hard to say without knowing how strong/unfit you are or what your climbing goals are.  Do you want to increase maximum strength for one-off moves?  In which case train 3-6 reps at close to maximum effort.  You'll need to find which of the above exercises you can barely do whilst maintaining good form.  If it is for longer plods like  some very steep sport routes, then higher numbers at lower percentages of maximum possible effort.

Reading a little basic training physiology will help you design your own programme if you don't want to ask a coach.

[fried]

Basically, my motivation is purely in staying injury free (ish), so I'm trying a holistic training approach. I have lots of problems with shoulders/ bicep/ elbow etc and so, I thought I 'd start doing more core stuff to generally strengthen this area, combined with sorting out my bad posture.

Finally got a referral to see a specialist from my quack, so hopefully they'll be able to help me too.

[Rocksteady]

Extensive and excellent advice on correcting kyphosis and includes a program at the end. Boom.
[/quote]

BOOM indeed! Thanks for posting! 

[fried]

 

Nice work. I'm going to try putting sellotape across my back next week

[Serpico]

Shark, what was/is your program for sorting out recurring lower back strains?

I think I fall into the category of people with dodgy core (despite being a climber) as a legacy of bad posture and bad form lifting heavy(ish) weights in my younger years exacerbated by a desk-bound job (stiff upper back, psoas etc). I'm constantly coming away from a session at the wall or a day at the crag with a sore lower back or sides (obliques). Any tips?

Extensive and excellent advice on correcting kyphosis and includes a program at the end. Boom.

I'd add psoas stretch to that routine.
Everyone should own a foam roller.

[royal]

If you do a youtube search for 'planche training', 'planche pushups' there are loads of great core exercises. All the similar gymnast training such for 'flags' and other moves is also really good.

[Pebblespanker]

In an effort to not fold like pen knife due to weak abs, age, lard etc I've been looking at Planche press-ups as part of my core routine etc. heres one of the many examples I found,



the kid doing them on a round bar was particulary impressive/depressing 



Now off to throw myself on the train tracks 

[royal]

 How far have you got with the planche and how long have you been trying mate? I thought the vids were funny as there are a bunch that say '3 weeks to Planche, blah, blah'! You'd have to be monster strong to do that in 3wks.
 I'm not very motivated to 'do 50 pressups a day' or other number stuff, but if I aim to do a Planche then training is a lot more interesting. It's going to take some work though. I could lift myself off the ground with my hands from a sitting position and raise my legs a little to begin with. I've been doing the planche exercises for about a month and have just started being able to lean forward with my legs tucked into my chest and support myself on my hands. It's such intense training that it wipes me out and I need to leave at least a few days or more in between sessions.

[Pebblespanker]

 2 weaks into the training mate, and thats not a misspelling  think I'll manage a full planche about the same time I start to draw my state pension!

Currently sets of 3-5 x 15-20 planche pressups with feet touching and multiple sets 3 x Frog planches for 10 secs, basically until I am knackered. Frogs are good as you feel really unstable to start which I figure has to be good for core as you get the wobble under control and try and stop yourself face-planting    biggest issue with most of the suggested routines I have seen is the potential for a flat face when you lose control 

Intend to start asymetrically in small increments extending the legs from the frog gradually as other core exercises allow me to have the strength to do so - good fun and a nice change from finger boarding, wall etc.

[Pebblespanker]

DOH! Forgot to mention the press-ups are done with hands at 90 deg to the body and 135 deg roughly to vary the exercise, next stage is alternate foot off the floor - nose reconstruction here I come ...

[slackline]

biggest issue with most of the suggested routines I have seen is the potential for a flat face when you lose control 

Cushion/pillow in front of face should help ameliorate the pain from that.

Or you could follow this guys example and stick some rolls to your head...



(Its from the riots in Egypt when stones were being lobbed at each other, there are several other improvised helmets, but this would be most effective against face-plants).

[duncan]

Basically, my motivation is purely in staying injury free (ish), so I'm trying a holistic training approach. I have lots of problems with shoulders/ bicep/ elbow etc and so, I thought I 'd start doing more core stuff to generally strengthen this area, combined with sorting out my bad posture.

Finally got a referral to see a specialist from my quack, so hopefully they'll be able to help me too.

'Climbers back' is more than just anecdote, and there is some evidence a kyphotic thoracic spine is associated with shoulder impingement, so the kind of stretching programme shark linked to might be worthwhile.

I had shoulder and elbow problems for many years.   I've been relatively untroubled recently and one factor may be following a shoulder area 'stability' exercise programme aimed mainly at serratus anterior muscle.  Serratus anterior helps control scapular (shoulder blade) movement.  Mine were very weak relative to my pecs and lats.  Your problems may be due to some other reasons and the following is emphatically not a panacea for all ills.

Side-planks can work serratus anterior and, if done with good form - it helps if someone teaches you, pecs. and lats. remain relatively relaxed.   I also learnt to consciously use serratus with my shoulders in various climbing positions and practice this using a fingerboard with my feet on and whilst warming-up at the wall.

Press-ups also train serratus, though in a less isolated fashion than sideplanks.  Some of the regulars here have speculated that press-ups help alleviate elbow problems by improving shoulder stability rather than by any direct effect on the elbow.

Sideplanks also work the rotator cuff muscles in a far more physiological fashion than theraband exercises in my view.  The rotator cuff muscles are not shoulder rotators but all contract together to pull the 'ball' into the 'socket'. Sideplanks, which compress the shoulder joint, seem to encourage just this kind of contraction. 

[fried]

Thanks again Duncan,

I went for my first session with an Osteopath, and he is of the opinion that all my shoulder/ elbow problems come from 'blockages' in my upper back/ neck/ shoulders and strangely diaphragm. Having read all the article by Sausage I'm not greatly surprised. I'll try out the sideplanks and see if I can work them into my routine.

[shark]

Side-planks can work serratus anterior and, if done with good form - it helps if someone teaches you, pecs. and lats. remain relatively relaxed.   I also learnt to consciously use serratus with my shoulders in various climbing positions and practice this using a fingerboard with my feet on and whilst warming-up at the wall.

Press-ups also train serratus, though in a less isolated fashion than sideplanks.  Some of the regulars here have speculated that press-ups help alleviate elbow problems by improving shoulder stability rather than by any direct effect on the elbow.

Sideplanks also work the rotator cuff muscles in a far more physiological fashion than theraband exercises in my view.  The rotator cuff muscles are not shoulder rotators but all contract together to pull the 'ball' into the 'socket'. Sideplanks, which compress the shoulder joint, seem to encourage just this kind of contraction.

There seem to be a few variants on the sideplank - what do you do? and what level of performance probably indicates that this is well developed enough. They seem easy but I may be doing them wrong (like usual)

When you say 'train' the Serratus Anterior do you mean get it to activate right or get strong because the straight arm pull-over in the Bolton complex  really works that muscle   

[Fultonius]

When you do the straight arm pullover on the Bolton Complex, what do you lie on? A bench?  Doing it on a gymball really ups the involvement of the core stabilisers (and I'm guessing the serratus anterior will get worked even more?)

I did a set of Rotational Press Ups last night - seems like a good combo of press ups and side plank type exercise - good one for bodyweight sessions when you don't have access to a gym.

[Rocksteady]

Side-planks can work serratus anterior and, if done with good form - it helps if someone teaches you, pecs. and lats. remain relatively relaxed.   I also learnt to consciously use serratus with my shoulders in various climbing positions and practice this using a fingerboard with my feet on and whilst warming-up at the wall.

Press-ups also train serratus, though in a less isolated fashion than sideplanks.  Some of the regulars here have speculated that press-ups help alleviate elbow problems by improving shoulder stability rather than by any direct effect on the elbow.

Sideplanks also work the rotator cuff muscles in a far more physiological fashion than theraband exercises in my view.  The rotator cuff muscles are not shoulder rotators but all contract together to pull the 'ball' into the 'socket'. Sideplanks, which compress the shoulder joint, seem to encourage just this kind of contraction.

Interesting. I was doing side plank last night and definitely am not doing them right as my lats/deltoids were solid!

Any hints on proper technique?

I do feel I am quite good at activating serratus on press ups and chin ups. If I do lots of either exercise it's my serratus that gets most sore.

[duncan]

There seem to be a few variants on the sideplank - what do you do? and what level of performance probably indicates that this is well developed enough. They seem easy but I may be doing them wrong (like usual)

When you say 'train' the Serratus Anterior do you mean get it to activate right or get strong because the straight arm pull-over in the Bolton complex  really works that muscle 

As you will have gathered, I am not an unreserved advocate of 'core stability' exercises.  I was recently discussing the rise and fall of the fashion for core stability with a former student who is now a highly experienced sports physiotherapist.  She was saying she now sees many patients who are 'over stable' and need to move more rather than less.    You and others are interested in increasing stability to increase performance.  Have you watched how Adam Ondra moves?  A jellyfish comes to mind...

I'm doing side planks (and other exercises) to address a known specific dysfunction: a weak serratus relative to pecs. major and minor.  I think the advantage of side-planks for me is that I can do them with completely relaxed pecs.  I have to actively push down through my arm and adjust my body position a little ie vary the degree to which the chest faces the floor before pecs and lats switch off.  Deltoid is always working to some extent.

When I started, I struggled to control my scapula doing press-ups against a wall or half side-planks with a bent arm:


Now I do straight arm side-planks and mix it up a bit by rotating my body and lifting a leg some times:



I do 5x30 seconds each arm, alternating arms, with no rest between R and L arm, so a total of 5 mins.  I'm currently trying to focus on anaerobic endurance in my climbing training, so doing similar with side-planks.